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Ammo question

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So I'm siting watching the news trying to decide what to have for dinner last night when a news story about protest comes on. The protesters are saying there going to spend the night in the park and the police are telling them just come back tomorrow. Even though I knew the situation was completely different from what happened in London it was clear these people were pissed and all I could think of was that the majority of the ammo I had on hand was for a bolt action hunting rifle and a 22 rifle with only a hand full of 223 and suitable 12guage. So I offered to go to the store to pick up dinner and secretly more ammo. So one tasty sandwich latter I found my self asking what is the right amount of ammo to keep on hand? I don't want to fight a war but if I had to I wouldn't want to do it with a bayonet charge.

 

Money is a little tight but with that in mind whats a bear minimum amount of defense ammo to keep on hand?

 

How much of what kind of ammo do people keep on hand?

 

Thank you forgiving me a better idea of what are reasonable amounts.

Edited by Autonomous

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Depends on the weapon and expected use and availability. If you have something like an AK, the ammo is not rare but it isn't "common" either and an AK goes through a lot of ammo. My choice would be 1000 rounds with a rebuy when it got down to say 750. .22LR's are cheap and I go through a lot. My choice would be 2500 rounds with a rebuy at around 1500. Shot guns tend to run between 100 and 500 rounds. More for the 'hunting' calibers, less for the 'safe room defense' gauge (.410). I shoot my pistols a lot so I tend to have 500 rounds as a minimum. I'll run 500 to 750 but I rebuy at 500.

You don't have to break the bank. A couple of boxes of 50 for a hand gun, 50 for a shotgun and 50 rounds for a rifle is a great start. Then just pick up another box or two when you see them on sale.

Edited by Capt Bart

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I'm not certain that you will get everyone to agree on an exact number. I like to think of what any worst case scenario for me would be, then try to think about roughly how many rounds I may go through in said event, and then I double that.

 

.........and really in any worse case scenario is there really any such thing as TOO MUCH AMMO?:D I would ALWAYS rather have too much then not enough. Wouldn't you?

Edited by CCSir
'cause I still can't seem to spell.

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I'm not certain that you will get everyone to agree on an exact number. I like to think of what any worst case scenario for me would be, then try to think about roughly how many rounds I may go through in said event, and then I double that.

 

.........and really in any worse case scenario is there really any such thing as TOO MUCH AMMO?:D I would ALWAYS rather have too much then not enough. Wouldn't you?

There is an old pilot's saying that goes "the only time you can have too much fuel is if you are on fire!" Drawing a parallel, the only time you can have too much ammo is if your storage is on fire! (OK, maybe if you have to carry ALL of it.)

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There is an old pilot's saying that goes "the only time you can have too much fuel is if you are on fire!" Drawing a parallel, the only time you can have too much ammo is if your storage is on fire! (OK, maybe if you have to carry ALL of it.)

Don't say that, I've got close to 6,000 rounds of assorted ammo under my bed :eek: hahaha

 

In response to the OP, it all depends. I tend to buy in bulk of 500-1,000 at a time. Last 9mm buy was 2,000 b/c it was such a good deal. I'd like to think the bare minimum would be 1,000 for each rifle and 500 for each handgun, but everyone has different needs, living arrangements, and financial obligations. I live at home, so any money that doesn't go to bills or savings goes into my gun addiction.

 

Check out ammotogo.com and palmettostatearmory.com, they have some of the best deals on 5.56, 9mm, and .45 that I have found. The only bad thing is you can never go, "Hey I need to run out tot he store and pickup some ammo". I mean, you can, but I know I hate doing it b/c then I know how much I'm over paying when I do.

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Don't say that, I've got close to 6,000 rounds of assorted ammo under my bed :eek: hahaha

I can see the news report now. "...occupants died in there sleep of a gas leak that lead to the fire. However authorities are puzzled by one victim who appears to have been shoot several thousand times from the floor below in a one story house. Top suspect is the polar bear from lost. Stay tuned for tips on surviving polar bear attacks..."

 

Thanks for the numbers I realize everyone is different but this gives me a better feel for what acquitted is.

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My amount of ammo is scaled to the number of magazines I own.

 

1,000 rounds is worthless sititng in a box b.c you have the two mags that come with the gun.

 

You will need 5-10 magazines for you personal defense pistol and rifle a some spare clips for the hunting rifle. Buy enough ammo to fill these mags until you have enough mags and then stockpile the ammo.

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I can see the news report now. "...occupants died in there sleep of a gas leak that lead to the fire. However authorities are puzzled by one victim who appears to have been shoot several thousand times from the floor below in a one story house. Top suspect is the polar bear from lost. Stay tuned for tips on surviving polar bear attacks..."

 

Thanks for the numbers I realize everyone is different but this gives me a better feel for what acquitted is.

LMAO

 

My amount of ammo is scaled to the number of magazines I own.

 

1,000 rounds is worthless sititng in a box b.c you have the two mags that come with the gun.

 

You will need 5-10 magazines for you personal defense pistol and rifle a some spare clips for the hunting rifle. Buy enough ammo to fill these mags until you have enough mags and then stockpile the ammo.

Just as you can never have too much ammo, you can never have too many mags.

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In the original post in this thread, the question of what ammo to use for personal defence was implied.

 

Federal Premium makes "Hydro Shock" Personal Defence ammo in multiple calibers.

 

A regular round of ammo can go through the chest cavity missing all vitals - leaving only a small hole. The advantage of Hydro Shock - it mushrooms when hitting body tissue - which produces a massive shock wave that will neutralize a threat if the round hits center-mass.

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In the original post in this thread, the question of what ammo to use for personal defence was implied.

 

Federal Premium makes "Hydro Shock" Personal Defence ammo in multiple calibers.

 

A regular round of ammo can go through the chest cavity missing all vitals - leaving only a small hole. The advantage of Hydro Shock - it mushrooms when hitting body tissue - which produces a massive shock wave that will neutralize a threat if the round hits center-mass.

Well more specifically Federal's Hydro Shock ammo is a hollow point, hence the mushroom effect, which any HP round will accomplish. As opposed to a full metal jacket (FMJ) which won't mushroom like an HP round will.

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Well more specifically Federal's Hydro Shock ammo is a hollow point, hence the mushroom effect, which any HP round will accomplish. As opposed to a full metal jacket (FMJ) which won't mushroom like an HP round will.

 

From my experience, most standard hollow points tend to fragment as they expand. Hydro Shocks don't.

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From my experience, most standard hollow points tend to fragment as they expand. Hydro Shocks don't.

And according to the State of Texas DPS folks they also ricochet less than some others. One of the things about Hornady's Critical Defense ammo is that it is very much like their TAP for law enforcement so again, I'm using what the LEOs use.

Just as a point to consider; regardless of what ammo you choose, read up on it as much as possible. If you KNOW its advantages BEFORE you use it, it is part of why you chose that round and can be a defense on round choice at a trial. After use is too late to say "and besides, I read that it ricochets less"; you must know this before use.

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Hornady's TAP pistol ammo uses the Hornady XTP bullet which is, for all intents an purposes, a hunting bullet. Testing of TAP pistol ammo has shown rather mild expansion but good penetration and retention. This sort of performance can be obtained from ball ammo. The FTX bullet used in Critical Defense test better, and was designed from the ground up as a defensive bullet.

 

Federal Hydra Shok are rather old technology, a few generations behind in modern JHP design. Federal's newer loads, like the HST and Tactical Bonded, perform dramatically better. Any modern, bonded JHP is going to do the job, with a few exceptions like the Winchester Ranger T-Series and the Federal HST.

 

Here is a photo of recovered HST bullets from various calibers.

 

35hq05c.jpg

 

And here is a good website with tests of different 9mm ammunition showing how different types of hollow points behave: http://frag.110mb.com/

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From my experience, most standard hollow points tend to fragment as they expand. Hydro Shocks don't.

 

No bonded HPs will come apart unless they hit bone, most all premium ammo is bonded. Hydro shock is just a name, no better than a gold dot or any other premium ammo.

In some circles frangible ammo is touted above the best HPs. Frangibles will not over penetrate and can kill from cell shock, the wound channel is large and the breaking apart of multiple projectiles do extensive damage.

Edited by 2HOW

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In some circles frangible ammo is touted above the best HPs.

 

I'd like to know where, the FBI Ballistic Test Protocol is the de facto standard which ammunition manufacturers use when designing ammunition and agencies use when choosing ammunition. And the basis and protocols make sense to me as well.

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I think BamaMan has a good point about how mags you have. 500 Rounds is a good start. Personally I have 1000 rounds minumum at all times. Currently I have 2500 rounds of .22, 1500 rounds of 9mm, 2000 rounds of 45 cal, 1500 rounds of 45 colt and 1000 rounds of assorted shotgun shells...and it is still growing. There really is no right amount. I think the amount of ammo you have goes along with the amount of food you have, you can never have too much. .22 cal is still pretty dirt cheap so for up to 30 or 40 bucks you can have 1000-1500 rounds so why not. Every time I go to a store that sells ammunition, if I have the extra cash I will buy another box of ammo. Shotgun shells are fairly large so storing them is a bit of a pain but all the "smaller" cals are easier to store so I keep them well stocked. Since your question was more geared towards a defensive situation like riots you need to decide what gun you would use for that situation. Most likely not a .22 cal. A shotgun, handgun, or AR style is most likely what you would use. Next decide how long do you think the riots might go on for? Then stock up. Like everyone else pretty much has said, you can never have enough ammo.

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I think BamaMan has a good point about how mags you have. 500 Rounds is a good start. Personally I have 1000 rounds minumum at all times. Currently I have 2500 rounds of .22, 1500 rounds of 9mm, 2000 rounds of 45 cal, 1500 rounds of 45 colt and 1000 rounds of assorted shotgun shells...and it is still growing. There really is no right amount. I think the amount of ammo you have goes along with the amount of food you have, you can never have too much. .22 cal is still pretty dirt cheap so for up to 30 or 40 bucks you can have 1000-1500 rounds so why not. Every time I go to a store that sells ammunition, if I have the extra cash I will buy another box of ammo. Shotgun shells are fairly large so storing them is a bit of a pain but all the "smaller" cals are easier to store so I keep them well stocked. Since your question was more geared towards a defensive situation like riots you need to decide what gun you would use for that situation. Most likely not a .22 cal. A shotgun, handgun, or AR style is most likely what you would use. Next decide how long do you think the riots might go on for? Then stock up. Like everyone else pretty much has said, you can never have enough ammo.

 

I am looking more at a defensive perspective. I come out and say this and not to derail the topic but its the motivating factor here. The occupy Wallstreet/Oakland/insert big city of your choice here movement is making my painfully aware of all the areas of prep that I have neglected. I don't think the sky is falling yet but they are just disorganized enough that no one really knows what there going to do next. After watching them clash with police a relatively close to home I guess I'm at orange alert.

http://weliketheoutdoors.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/fire-chart.jpg

 

My primary concern is riots or looters should a major disaster occur. Anyway tomorrow I'll be placing a bulk ammo order at the gun store and picking up a few extra magazines. I have only been a firearm owner for a year and a half so there's a bit of catch up to be played with those of you who have spent years stockpiling up ammo. 500 rounds of rifle and handgun is a good start so I'll probably get another 500 when half of either gets used to perpetually grow my supply.

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A good idea someone mentioned is for one year, buy nothing but ammo with your extra cash. Then after that, buy 2:1. You shoot 100 rounds, buy 200. You can adjust that to your needs. Maybe stockpile for 6 months, then buy 2:1 etc.

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A couple of comments on Ammo.

 

First: Only you can decde when you have enough. When you do have enough, go out and buy twice that much. If you don't use it for food or protection, you can use it for barter.

 

Second: if you have ever processed your own Venison you have first-hand knowledge of how bullets expand, mushroom, fragment. They don't always do what their manufacturers promo says.

 

Third: Although I do carry a small .380 for personal defence (according to the NRA's Personal Defence Info, any altercation outside of your home will be within 5 feet or less. My .380 is quite adequate for that) my home defence weapon is a modified (28" total length) 12 gauge pump shotgun with a laser sight and Winchester PDX1 Personal Defence Ammo (that particular round contains a 1 0z rifled slug and three 00 Buck buffered shot pellets.

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the question of how much ammo?

the first question is bug in or bug out and how far to your bug of course considering

population density between.

bug in there ain't enough and if you are displaced and survive do you have a stash or back pocket resource to restart or PLAN B

This is where a BOB turns into your restart button so now look at your BOB does it look

sufficient to sustain you and your family to get you to a possible secondary location.

 

bug out:

Speed is essential the faster you can get to your bug out the better.

we come to the crux of the matter weight and distance.

considering that technology may not work, will your vehicle run, if it does and few others

do are you a target for getting jacked.

It's great and I would be truly impressed if you had the only working vehicle in the world

but now there are only 7 billion others who want it lot of luck brother....

OK your a mega prepper got pack llamas and a trained milk cow and a dog named boo

cute but your problem is still 7 billion others want it OK OK but at least one wants it.

and if you have ever been on a trail ride I would not call it covert in fact as loud as a 1 man band falling off a cliff...

are the roads clogged with vehicles and people, the Rita hurricane would have been an I

opener for all those who are considering bug out.

hundreds of thousands of vehicles and people most who had no food water or cash

or extra gas.

this was an emergency but everyone had an Idea it would end and life would be back to

normal fairly soon this dynamic will change under other circumstances.

some consider going by motorcycle this makes you a easy moving target.

so hoofing it, so considering this what would you want more power or lots of projectiles.

Once you get to your bug out now it is a bug in scenario what food, medicine, water and

defensive stuff do you have stored.

the answer is: a real problem that needs to be considered.

life is a Rubixs cube and you are blind, there's always a solution but you just can't see it..

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