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Hardening your Fortress.

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Bugging In: The Compromise

Its a n important choice:

 

Do you want your house to look empty, or do you want to make sure every would be looter knows you are armed to the teeth with firearms?

 

This was mentioned in another thread but not put in depth. I think if your house looks empty, people would raid it just for a place to stay. But if looters/raiders know you are armed, they can:

 

A: Be afraid of you.

 

or

 

B: Find a way to burn you out or sneak into your home and kill you so they can have you stuff.

 

 

So what would be better, looking like no one is home or making your presence home?

 

 

Or should you find a way to compromise? How would you balance both aspects?

 

I thought this was an interesting question. It immediately brought to mind how you might harden your home so as to avoid tipping your hand that you are prepared. Apparently I was perceived as hijacking the thread by responding in that vein... So here it is. How would you harden your fortress so as to keep your fortifications, and your preparattions, secret? I'll add my thoughts later, will let someone else kick it off.

Edited by survival101

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I like regular ol' concrete blocks. could line the inside of all your walls with em.

 

--Adding links for Fire-resistant building materials, hardened structures etc--

http://www.lpcorp.com/flameblock/ Fire resistant OSB/sheathing

http://www.radiantbarrier.com/house-wrap.htm Radiation shielding house wraps

 

http://www.hardenedstructures.com/ lots of ideas and basic principles

Edited by NavyVet_77

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I like regular ol' concrete blocks. could line the inside of all your walls with em.

 

If your talking about concrete cylinder blocks that are used in factory buildings, any 30 cal rifle bullet & larger will penetrate it in one shot. I'm talking about 7.62X39, 308/7.62X51, 7.62X54R, 300 win Mag, 338 Lapua Mag, 416 Barret & 50 BMG.

 

223/5.56 will need afew shots to penetrate it. The Green Tip 223 ammo will do it in one shot though.

Edited by P210SIG

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If your talking about concrete cylinder blocks that are used in factory buildings, any 30 cal rifle bullet & larger will penetrate it in one shot. I'm talking about 7.62X39, 308/7.62X51, 7.62X54R, 300 win Mag, 338 Lapua Mag, 416 Barret & 50 BMG.

 

223/5.56 will need afew shots to penetrate it. The Green Tip 223 ammo will do it in one shot though.

 

I was thinking 8x16 blocks for basement walls, but you're probably right. That would however be after the bullet managed to make it through the exterior walls of the home. Couldn't hurt.

 

I suggested to my brother, who is building a new home, to place the well pump inside the home somewhere, rather than having it outside in a little covered thingy. At least that way n one can see that he has a well nor have access to it.

Edited by NavyVet_77

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I think it would be pretty tough to harden your defenses in secret, in my opinion. If I have enough time once SHTF I am going to cover all ground floor windows and most of the doors with stainless steel cooler panels(don't ask), probably painted a dark color and grind the screw heads so they can't be loosened.

Upstairs probably use a few rows of sandbags on all outside walls. Exterior of house is steel sidng and steel roofing, so shouldn't be as flammable as wood siding or asplalt shingles. Not 100% safe, but it's a start I guess. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Guest survival101

Just want to point out that question was asked in the other thread. To avoid side-tracking HOW we are hardening the structures, please go back and post that in the original thread about compromise, which deals with the choice and why it might be made. Thanks.

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Guest survival101
sorry i'll read a little more closely next time
no worries Jerry. I believe someone else started that convo. It probably would get more feedback in the other thread.

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Guest survival101

So, one of the tips I picked up was to line the interior of your home windows with window tinting. And, I guess you could barricade with cut to fit plywood on the inside, if you had window tint. That would be one help. What are steel cooler panels?

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Hog panels are great for window blocking you can cut them easily with bolt cutters to fit our windows so as to leave a long end which you bend around an eYe bolt and run thru your wall add a large fender washer or connect together with a 2 x4 can be put on doors small wooden wedges can be hammered into your doors to solidify them, security film is pretty cheap, comes in tints and does not "look" hostile, but keep in mind as you run around boarding up windows and nailing doors shut that you and yours may need to leave quickly and you will need to have at least two paths planned out that you can unseal very quickly and leave advice I give customers al the time is when glass blocking bsmt windows have a piece or two of rebar put in the grout lines from side to side and or up and down so keep the bricks in the window I have seen these glass block windows done poorly that are Easy to take out with a hammer, also bird spikes like are used on building ledges and the like can be put on your window sills to stop or really slow people from coming in

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Guest survival101

Nice ideas, DonDon. Hog panels are like Cattle panels then, I guess. So, here's my question. I like the idea, and as a woman with little woodworking skill would be able to do this myself. I guess my concern is, if the window is then broken by the assailant(s), it would be easy for them to throw in some combustibles to drive you out. They'd have to want your stuff pretty badly to go to that length. That must be why you recommend 2 exits. So, which is better then in your opinion? boarding your window from inside, or putting up hog panels as a fortifier? and, why?

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You cannot harden a structure that is stick construction.

you can build a structure in it that is hardened or add on an addition.

 

it needs to be on an exterior wall for venting and if your house is on a slab or pier and beam?

 

enough heat on the exterior or under the soffit your rafter tails will feed heat into attic and start a fire in it.even with a sheet Iron or metal roof the old asphalt shingles will melt out tar and it seep out and catch fire and the end wood will catch fire.

 

refractory concrete inside of a sand bag wall and the sand bags needs to be trapped between an interior

wall so they do not leak out when punctured this is also your insulator from projectiles concrete in itself

is not totally projectile proof 3 foot of dirt is, unless large considered anti aircraft weaponry is used.

 

 

the ceiling needs to be hardened more than the walls think of a concrete safe /vault inside your home.

as far an an entry there are few choices short of a blast door

 

My conclusion there are few barriers that do not Kill you or trap you I have been watching a certain

new show and it touts protection it is not I will not explain how these system can be overcome

But basically your a rat in the trap if you do not have a couple of engineered add on's to your system.

 

as far as cattle panels the window defense needs to be inside so you can hinge them to escape

your better off using them also in layers away from your home with T posts top wire removed

points sharpened and alternately bent in and out with barbed wire and tangle foot with pit traps

approaching and ankle breakers spikes and other deterrents.

 

A 4 inch welding grinder cuts this like butter wear cuffed gloves and eye protection the sparks look

bad but they tingle a bit and that's about all wash well after all the metal grit as it is an irritant.

before driving T-posts know where your water sewer and other service lines on your property are

do not create a worse problem.

A broken sewer line is a festering disease and insect breeding pit.

 

people Fail to understand their foe there are many incidents of people being burned out from an

attempt to gain their possessions but if the dwellers were driven away or killed it was considered a win.

the Indians did it in our west yes they wanted the food women and weapons but the water well was

a win and not having neighbors was the intent.

 

Other cultures were especially viscous to instill fear into others so they would make some examples

out of a few to pressure the others to capitulate or evacuate the area.

 

Not to get into specifics but If someone wants you unless you have a department

of defense budget they can overcome any fixed structure.

 

I cannot remember who said it but basically a fixed defensive structure is a grave and an edifice to mans

stupidity I think it was in reference to the Maginot line by General George Patton.

 

multiple fences and party favors between

have worked better against assault than any other but you still need a egress route through your

defense lines in case you are over run or infiltrated by an experienced group.

 

buildings and walls are a 2 edge sword you cannot see them and they cannot see you

something heaved over the wall can effect them and not you as well as in reverse

bunkers are for shrapnel not direct assault or a direct hit and a group is available to

put out fires while others defend

 

here is a link to refractory cement mixture

 

http://www.traditionaloven.com/tutorials/concrete.html

 

There are ways to make a domicile a trap and back to a domicile so the word "let them have it"

again a 2 edged sword.

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My house is earth bermed. It is a geodesic dome that has six foot riser walls to allow the upstairs to have more headroom. The first four feet of the riser wall was bermed for three reasons.

 

1. The water coming coming off the dome runs down and away from the house via the berm.

 

2. The berm provides a degree of insulation for the lower portion of the house.

 

3. Dirt is the best way to stop gunfire.

 

There are three exits around the house with stone retaining walls flanking the entranceways to hold the berms. Here is a picture of the house just after a snow storm we had. It should give you an idea about what I am talking about.

 

post-1736-138514979952_thumb.jpg

Edited by Rod

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The book 'Holding your ground' http://survivalcache.com/book-review-holding-your-ground/ has some interesting ideas.

 

First, Snake is right about stick construction. If you have HOA (Home Owners Association) restrictions there is not much you can do outside before TSHTF. There are some things but you need to alter your mindset a little. You can NOT prevent access so don't even try. What you can and should do is to channel access. You want the BGs to try to break in at the location YOU choose. That eases your defensive requirements some. Think nice thorny plants with LONG thorns. It is just landscaping, what's the beef? You can do that prior to need and the HOA should be happy. Think raised flower beds (with thorns?) where you want fighting positions. A 4X4 foot flower bed that extends 2 feet above ground puts a LOT of dirt between you and the BG's bullets. Think internal sand bags that are stored in the closet. Visitors see nothing in what passes for normal times but come TSHTF, you heave a couple of feet of sand bags to the locations where you need them to be and, BINGO, fighting positions. Rod is correct, dirt is just about the best bullet stop there is.

 

You can make your house look looted and even burned after TSHTF but building an obvious Fort Apache takes a lot of skill to avoid risks like tracers into the roof to start a fire. Snake is correct, if you can burn it the BG's will figure out how to do it. Why burn? I have a warped mind but I don't get that one either. Why burn cars and shops, especially of folks who helped you, when your freaking sports team WINS for crying out loud? All I know is that they do it. It is like keying a car - gets you absolutely nothing but it is still done just to ruin what someone else has. He worked hard for his stuff and so you destroy it because you didn't work hard. Bet that showed him! Unless of course he is hidden with his weapon, then he'll show you. As the armed store owners in LA.

Edited by Capt Bart

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Rod..Im

envious...That would look great in these mountains also.

Capt.Bart and rod are correct in Fortification,its about dirt!!

My home is grey enough to stop most,but my belief is to stop it before it get close!

Intelligence and gathering it from my local area is most important thing for me.

I have all major roads maped and will watch the choke points.

Its different here in Wv,because of the closeness of the mountains and hills.If your not aware of witch valley your in your lost!

 

Sorry!! its different for everyone so plan on your area..

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Making your home defensible extends to thinking through the inside of the house also. For example, I have a large Browning safe that is located just inside our main bedroom door. The door of that safe opens towards the door that enters the bedroom. By standing in front of the safe with the door open, my back is protected by the bulk of the safe, my left side by the open safe door, and I then have the bedroom door covered. That also gives me great access to weapons inside the safe.

 

The interior of the dome is open plan with a large stone chimney that goes up through the center of the house. As Capt Bart alluded to, you want to take control over where an intruder can go. Upstairs, protected by the chimney that could cover two, there is a clear field of fire and no place for an intruder to hide. See picture.

 

post-1736-13851497995633_thumb.jpg

 

Take note of the open spiral staircase to the right. That allows access to the upstairs to be properly controlled. From the upstairs chimney and to your back there are three easy exits.

 

Now I believe that if the situation has deteriorated to the point where you are forced to defend your home from the inside, it is best to inflict as much damage as possible while letting your family escape. The ONLY time you should be caught in this situation is if it was a surprise.

 

That is why the woods have been allowed to be so close to the house. The woods would provide reasonable cover when escaping. Having a large open field of fire around a position is for the military. You want to build defensible positions outside and around the house where, if there is no other choice, the real fight should take place.

 

As a last word, don't get in a firefight. People die that way. No way around it. But if there is no choice, make sure you have all the advantages.

Edited by Rod

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Nice ideas, DonDon. Hog panels are like Cattle panels then, I guess. So, here's my question. I like the idea, and as a woman with little woodworking skill would be able to do this myself. I guess my concern is, if the window is then broken by the assailant(s), it would be easy for them to throw in some combustibles to drive you out. They'd have to want your stuff pretty badly to go to that length. That must be why you recommend 2 exits. So, which is better then in your opinion? boarding your window from inside, or putting up hog panels as a fortifier? and, why?

 

Unless you house is an old brick and oak structure or better you are not going to be able to count on bars or board up to keep a determine assailant out, for these reason and just general visibility I say panels are better than plywood as you can shot thru them, or throw boiling water or mace etc to dissuade them from coming in, the easiest way to do the panels over the exterior of your windows, so as to still be able to use the glass and screen measure the window cut the panel with bolt cutters LARGER than the window by at least one full square plus the length to the next so you are cutting just inside of the second square out from the window to leave long " rods" all around the cut panel then bend them all to a 90degree over a cinder block or such with a hammer place eyebolts long enough to reach thru your walls at least two per side over the bends and hammer the bend down over the eyebolts and drill holes to match thru your walls and place large washers and or pieces of wood on the inside and nuts for your escape windows instead of nuts on the inside for one side of the window use locking pliers when the time comes to do it you will need to do with what you have. Either you are going yo have to harden now or store all the goods in your garage. I have a customer who installed c channel above and below his windows as tracks anchored in to the brick so as he could install panels that slide in from the side he made from extruded metal reinforced on the side with angle tack welded on with a hasp padlocked from the inside he was not prepping just keeping out the neighbors. Hardening a home is as much a pychological barrier to ours. All my years in the security business I have come to realize that I sell and install peace of mind as much or more than real security, alarms and cameras can't and will not save your life if someone wants you or your family we will call the police, and when they get there we can give them footage of the crime, but if you are not willing and able to do something to defend yourself, family and properTy then we just hope that they only wanted your valuables. Hardening a home to the degree that this thread is going is a great hypothetical but if you do your neighbor will call the cops or at least the head of the homeowner assoc. start smaller most doors are of the pre hung type and the frames that come with them are as we say " one kick", a soft pine 1" x 3" cut in half twice for your door latch and dead bolt, your local hardware store will have a single plate that goes from above your deadbolt to below your strike and has several holes for 4" screws start here, so that someone has to kick your door twice to get in then if you have doors with glass replace them with steel skin solid core doors, install kick bolts on the bottom of doors ( you step on them and they go down in to the floor) these are great if the door is solid and they go deep enough they will be the strongest of your locks put " safety laminate" on you windows and add secondary locks for double hung windows that are not where the windows meet a small flat bar jammed between makes short work of the latches there. Plant thorny bushes in front of your windows and keep them trimmed low enough to see over and behind don't store fire wood by your sliding glass door ( this one really bugs me) as it is a universal key to all glass doors. Walk around your home and think like a criminal see your weaknesses and fix them, pick a interior room with an attic scuttle and no windows add 1/2 plywood floor to ceiling with lots of 3" screws and add a escape scuttle with ladder to garage or other room or trap door to crawl space or bsmt going long here who do I think I am JCMS? The point is start small cheap and sensible ....but do start SOON

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Im in LOVE,with the fireplace and wood ceiling.

you are correct about never being suprised!

Excelent JOB Rod.

 

Thanks 101matt. The ceiling only took me about..... xxx,xxx,xxx curse words to finish. Whew! Not doing that again! :)

 

Here is a picture of the lower portion.

 

post-1736-13851497996681_thumb.jpg

 

Nice write up DonDon! Lots of good ideas.

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Plywood on the windows with holes to look out from/shoot from.

 

Metal bars between sliding doors/windows to keep them from opening.

 

Basic alarm system.

 

Backup generator(s) for home.

 

Guard dogs.

 

Have a fence around your yard. (Metal would be best, but those don't look nice in a normal setting.)

 

Also, I would hope you have an attic with a window overlooking the front of your property, it could make a nice snipers nest.

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