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NovicePrepper

Bugging In: The Compromise

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Here is the problem we all face in "SHF" do we show compassion to those who DID not prep.

 

I work in a Nursing home and am a CNA,worked at both local Hospitals,Compassion by the Nurses and other CNAs was about 30%.The others were there for a pay check.

 

Im very compassinoate tword my people because of thier age and disablitys..

 

BUT after"SHF" and your driving a Caddy and ask me for some food??

I will make it very clear,you did not Prep or care enough for your family to have 3 months of food in your home???Well now aint that a problem..what do you have to trade??? yep my hand is on my 45 ready!

 

Being responsible to yourself and Family comes first!!!Medical care sure, one person at a time when I have back up and your NOT getting in the house.

Edited by 101matt

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I would like to think that.. the fact that we recognize this 'personality trait' within ourselves, and know its there, we now know we can do something about it. Without recognizing this instinct, we would be helpless against, and succumb to it. We're half-way there already... maybe

 

i guess we would be in more trouble if we didn't think about any of this, huh? Things can't be changed unless they are admitted - right? :)

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Cowgirl,

You mentioned you don't have combat experience. That's ok a lot of people don't. I don't know how you feel about firearms but it might be worth learning to shot with a 22 rifle and if it's something your comfortable with moving up to something a little bigger. Marksmanship experience doesn't directly translate to being ready of a violent encounter but it's better then a baseball bat. I know that the idea of taking a life is unattractive morally but I'll share a bit of advice a mother of 3 once gave me. "If I would die to protect my kids you can bet I would kill to protect them." I don't have kids but I do have a short list of people I would throw my self into harms way to protect.

 

As for vest if your heart is set on one there is a verity of adjustable plate carriers on the market. we do have women out fighting for our country and serving as law enforcement so there is definitely a market for vest tailored to the female body.

 

The only "combat experience" i could even come close to claiming would be stalking deer and elk during hunting season. Can't pull my bow anymore due to partially torn rotator cuff, but definately I like my firearms (would rather get a 308 than a diamond any day). I am pretty handy with a rifle, but don't have the same comfort level with hand-guns so i signed up for a hand gun course next month. So i hope that is a step in the right direction. That bit of advice you were given is what we girls call 'momma bear' mode and i have been told by many women that it kicks in naturally given the situation :)

 

And the vest, i am more leaning towards the hubby having one because he would be the one more likely to be needing it realistically

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The only "combat experience" i could even come close to claiming would be stalking deer and elk during hunting season. Can't pull my bow anymore due to partially torn rotator cuff, but definately I like my firearms (would rather get a 308 than a diamond any day). I am pretty handy with a rifle, but don't have the same comfort level with hand-guns so i signed up for a hand gun course next month. So i hope that is a step in the right direction. That bit of advice you were given is what we girls call 'momma bear' mode and i have been told by many women that it kicks in naturally given the situation :)

 

And the vest, i am more leaning towards the hubby having one because he would be the one more likely to be needing it realistically

 

Threads like this get complicated because we are dealing with combat. We often forget that we are NOT preparing for combat. We are preparing to survive! I am a combat vet, have one or more weapons and have been in one or more two way lead exchanges. There is NOTHING I experienced in combat that I ever want to do again. I like to shoot. It is relaxing, I am reasonably proficient and I enjoy doing so. Anyone who says they LIKED combat is either a liar or a psycho. In either case, avoid them. While we have our war stories, I know of no one who was ever actually in combat who truly ENJOYED the experience. Having other folks try to kill you is simply not enjoyable. When not scared to death I was usually board to tears.

 

Mission determines caliber and mission and caliber determines weapon platform. Depending on your location and likely situation, a .22 might actually be a better gun than a .308 for example. I expound on a three gun battery plus a .22 for survival, not to fight battles. A properly sized hand gun, shot gun, and game rifle (appropriate for your area) plus a .22 for small critters is a solid set up. I do not think anyone who spends much time in combat will survive just because of conditions. No hospitals make any wound dangerous.

 

The single most likely TSHTF scenario for most urban dwellers is the home invasion robbery. Short, violent, and odds on most likely to happen. If you get killed in a home invasion, you won't have the chance to survive TEOTWAWKI. I fear that many of us (including myself at times) forget about the slow motion disasters. Argentina of today or Germany in the late 1920's or Europe anywhere today are in the throes of a cataclysmic breakdown of society. Where in that scheme of things do you throw the TEOTWAWKI flag?

 

Even sudden events like an EMP attack may not require and immediate (as in leave now) response. Makes it tough to prep for. The trouble with things like a vest is you most likely won't have it on when you need it. I assure you I did not wear my "chicken plate" 24X7 in RVN. We put them on for combat insertions (I was a helicopter driver) and that was about it. Even when pulling officer of the guard (when I had my first 2 way lead exchange) I wasn't wearing the plate. It was heavy, hot, and I didn't expect to need it. Money spent on an expensive item that won't be used is better spent elsewhere.

 

Just a few thoughts at random. It is easy to get wrapped up in the combat stuff, but that is not where you will spend 99.9% of your time. If you spend more that 1% or most likely 0.1% of your time in combat, you will probably not make it. Not in a survival scenario.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

Edited by Capt Bart

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A lot is being made about the cost of vests, the surplus flak vests that I spoke of earlier in this thread were $80 a piece, my levelIII and trauma plate were expired gifts from a police chief I wouldn't go and pay the full price for a vest because I hope and plan to never be in a situation where I need one, but that being said I prep for the situation anyway. As a father of five an husband, and the one with the skills that will get us thru when I go out alone to scout or scavenge, or go to speak with or run off visitors, the added protection to increase the odds of my return is for me, who payed nothing, well worth the investment. But I still would love to get a couple of lexan shields for the family if I can get a deal, that's my SOP, never pass up a deal you can't pass up.

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Truthfully I think its better to try to stay incognito in your own house. You can have as many guns as you want and go to the range every week but the funny thing is paper targets dont shoot back. So how do you know what your reaction will be in a real gun fight and what will you do if you see your loved one bleeding out cause they took one to chest? Anyways if im wondering around and I see a house with items that I need or my family and friends need and a armchair warrior is making his presence known buy showing off his guns. Im going to sit back in the tree lines and start popping people off. Then what? you got a bullet in ya. Would I really do that? NO! but someone else could. So if you hunker down keep quiet and pull guard duty youll draw less attention to yourself. If you go looking for trouble guess what your going to find? TROUBLE

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Just a few thoughts at random. It is easy to get wrapped up in the combat stuff, but that is not where you will spend 99.9% of your time. If you spend more that 1% or most likely 0.1% of your time in combat, you will probably not make it. Not in a survival scenario.

 

Just my not so humble opinion.

 

Thank you for your input - my pop is vietnam vet and due to his inability to discuss that which he encountered over there is a good indicator that its way more than my brain or emotion can try to figure out ... fear of the unknown i think is something a person can get themselves way too wrapped up in (ie. i am speaking fully for myself) and is something i definately finding myself doing ... So, i am doing what you and many others have suggested and getting more involved in preparing the 99.9% which is where i need to focus :)

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All this sounds like a war zone,but window shutters of some kind,a fire extinguisher,plenty of supplies,food

water,ammo,and not to military looking,you are a civilian in the same boat as everybody else,you will remaing close to home to protect it,and hope for law and order.

But buging in is my option in all but the worst scenario.

http://www.bulletproofbodyarmorhq.com/

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NavyVet77..

I get your point,Metro Michigan WILL BE AS BAD AS Bosina!!Large citys are death traps..JMO and being a Combat Eng.in the early70s I do have some skills...So in the Metro area I would set up some mean looking WIRE,a couple of dead things hanging off it would help(small animals)..as far as doing a couple of bounce and boom,No I would never use in a city..they kill friends as well as enemies!

 

Here in Rural WV..my home is on outskirts of the city,and can get to the woods and mountains in 20 minutes walking with a 50lb alice pack.

But I will bug in ...I do have some suprizes waiting IF NEED BE..

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NavyVet77..

I get your point,Metro Michigan WILL BE AS BAD AS Bosina!!Large citys are death traps..JMO and being a Combat Eng.in the early70s I do have some skills...So in the Metro area I would set up some mean looking WIRE,a couple of dead things hanging off it would help(small animals)..as far as doing a couple of bounce and boom,No I would never use in a city..they kill friends as well as enemies!

 

Living where I do, 5th floor apartment, i dont see Bug-in as being an option. No room for wire, dead animals, or traps of any kind. Not much room for storing long-term supplies for that matter (no freezer big enough to store those grain items to kill off resident bugs before permanent storage). No point in building a stockpile of long-term supplies IN my apartment if i KNOW i have to get the F* outta town, which means a cache somewhere. As of right now, Ive tweaked our lil 12lb packs to last about a week. (1 week rations&Oatmeal + water filter/purifiers for like 1000 (1k) gallons combined for 2 people).

My prep efforts are focused towards a FInancial Collapse (just finished reading Ferfal's book) aquiring LAND far from 'Metro Michgian' or something more tangible than papermoney.

 

My job... I work in IT, for a 'MAJOR' IT service company and support a MAJOR bank chain branches in the 'Metro Michigan' area. I hear and see some strange transactions daily, just by keeping my ears open and paying attention to whats going on the bank and my surroundings. WHEN there is a Financial Collapse and a run on the bank, Ill be right in the MIDDLE of it; Hince the CPL and MP .45. I may not have any real HEADS UP before it happens, But Ill know about it in the early stages, hopfully soon enough to get home, get my wife& packs and get the f* out.

 

Bug-out-route and time-frames based on evasion of crowds and certain neighborhoods. Practice twice a week at gun range w/ MP .45

As for BOL... I dont have any local assets... Buying land at/near family farm, but that is far away.

 

Trying to BUG-IN, a 5th floor apartment, Im just a sitting duck and i know this. And for those who participate in this topic, remaining 'gray' already keeps my a$$ out trouble more than most people. its all about blinding in and keeping a low-profile. Even after all this... my car still got broke into a while back. seems a few guys just decided to sweep through our parking lots breaking windows (smash and grab) but all they got was 2 bottles of water. Cost me $300 to fix my window.

Edited by NavyVet_77

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Navy,

Sounds about right. In your situation, I think I'd prep for a couple of weeks bug-in; just in case you don't beat the crowd out or it isn't a confirmed TEOTWAWKI. Give things a little time to shake out and THEN go if you didn't beat the rush.

 

Getting out BEFORE the crowd would be my plan A but if that didn't work, bugging in for a couple of weeks WITHOUT using your BOB would be a nice option for plan B.

 

Just a thought but that is how I think I'd do it.

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As far as buging out,get creative..South Hampton has a vice PORT!!!lake Michigan is as good a spot to use for transport as any major road..

I dont know if you can sail but a small boat seems to be the answer>>\JMO..

good luck..

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Unfortunately we cannot explain in these rooms how to overcome aggressors at least I would

find it extremely prohibitive.

 

I have tried to my best with out getting into things that could harm or permanently injure or maim

persons there are some things that require first hand knowledge.

and practice will or can get you in extreme TROUBLE.

 

the amount of skill and knowledge is considerable and even under optimal circumstances people have

been killed.

 

under current rules and laws you can be imprisoned and held without bail you can be put on a list that

WILL prevent many of you from working in or around certain sites or for companies because

they are connected.

 

When I say you must think out side the box many have touched on subjects that are related or

directly involved in defense or the use for defense.

A dozen years we could have spoken of it but now it is a offense and only foolish people place

themselves in that kind of potential danger.

 

One thing I should point out I know none of you except you internet persona that is not knowing

people at all I could be a chameleon saying all the right things probing for knowledge from either side

of the spectrum and there are other who would hide their hate under another's M.O.

DTA boys and girls {don't trust anyone} .

 

I have tried to limit my posts to defensive tactics ply wood with nails through it like a bed of nails

on the door and anchored in front of the door pungi sticks and other ground defenses are very

effective and do not require oversight or constant surveillance there are battery operated

motion sensors and legal chemical bear deterrents.

 

there was arrest of three men in Chicago ahead of the nato summit look at their charges and how serious

this type of activity is is being taken and maybe you will GET IT.

It should be and you will find yourself stripped of all your worldly goods and then your liberties will be

forfeit permanently UNDERSTAND!

 

YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS there are moles and peepers cruising through sights like these for all sorts

of reasons you could be entrapped or give accidentally information that can could come back to you.

This is STUPID, giving information is aiding and abetting UNDERSTAND!

I have no interest in helping or being part of stupid and this is not a premature disclaimer for net

neutrality it is my true feelings people can take information and harm someone I do not want the

responsibility.

 

I would keep it civil and down to basic survival and prepping medical information and those things

associated with farming ranching water finding etc.

The wolves are on the prowl and jacking up anyone once in the system your screwed right now all

agencies are strapped for cash and the only way one can keep or improve their position is to

impale others on the horns of a dilemma, a judicial one.

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Did you see a black helo or something snake? And yes you are correct it is purely idiotic to speak of the use of traps and other more offensive defenses on the web, any talk of any form of violence towards others is a violation of the kinder, gentler world in which we live, and an encroachment on the agencies' jobs. We would be best served to keep to more food,water, shelter discussions. It is easy to get caught up in the emotions of defending our homes and families threads like these get us thinking about scenarios in which we/ours are being endangered directly and/or By the loss of the resources to stay alive and healthy, and that raises a strong response in people like us that see that the best way to help ourselves and other is not to count on anyone else but ourselves and few others.

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Unfortunately we cannot explain in these rooms how to overcome aggressors at least I would

find it extremely prohibitive.

 

I have tried to my best with out getting into things that could harm or permanently injure or maim

persons there are some things that require first hand knowledge.

and practice will or can get you in extreme TROUBLE.

 

the amount of skill and knowledge is considerable and even under optimal circumstances people have

been killed.

 

under current rules and laws you can be imprisoned and held without bail you can be put on a list that

WILL prevent many of you from working in or around certain sites or for companies because

they are connected.

 

When I say you must think out side the box many have touched on subjects that are related or

directly involved in defense or the use for defense.

A dozen years we could have spoken of it but now it is a offense and only foolish people place

themselves in that kind of potential danger.

 

One thing I should point out I know none of you except you internet persona that is not knowing

people at all I could be a chameleon saying all the right things probing for knowledge from either side

of the spectrum and there are other who would hide their hate under another's M.O.

DTA boys and girls {don't trust anyone} .

 

I have tried to limit my posts to defensive tactics ply wood with nails through it like a bed of nails

on the door and anchored in front of the door pungi sticks and other ground defenses are very

effective and do not require oversight or constant surveillance there are battery operated

motion sensors and legal chemical bear deterrents.

 

there was arrest of three men in Chicago ahead of the nato summit look at their charges and how serious

this type of activity is is being taken and maybe you will GET IT.

It should be and you will find yourself stripped of all your worldly goods and then your liberties will be

forfeit permanently UNDERSTAND!

 

YOU HAVE NO FRIENDS there are moles and peepers cruising through sights like these for all sorts

of reasons you could be entrapped or give accidentally information that can could come back to you.

This is STUPID, giving information is aiding and abetting UNDERSTAND!

I have no interest in helping or being part of stupid and this is not a premature disclaimer for net

neutrality it is my true feelings people can take information and harm someone I do not want the

responsibility.

 

I would keep it civil and down to basic survival and prepping medical information and those things

associated with farming ranching water finding etc.

The wolves are on the prowl and jacking up anyone once in the system your screwed right now all

agencies are strapped for cash and the only way one can keep or improve their position is to

impale others on the horns of a dilemma, a judicial one.

 

I agree with Snake. There are too many Mall Ninjas out there who may not know when to use any useful information or how to use it. Some might look for anything as a sign that a SHTF event has occurred in order to do something stupid. These people do not know how to think, just like the guy who says "Hey, y'all watch this".

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Just as an aside, the 3 guys arrested in Chicago said they were brewing beer. The setup I saw on the news looked like they were brewing beer. But they also had some 5 gallon gas cans with ACTUAL gasoline in them! GASP:eek: - they MUST be terrorist. May or may not be, I don't know but I do know that Holder's justice department pointed out on Drudge that they had taken a lot more 'domestic terrorist' actions than foreign terrorist actions - that proves I'm a racist, BTW.

 

I don't know but it appears that in a political year, headline grabbing news that supports one or the other party's point of view are a real risk. Be care out there and stay gray. Being indiscreet, even if the action isn't technically illegal, can cost you your life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

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