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Bugging In: The Compromise

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Its a n important choice:

 

Do you want your house to look empty, or do you want to make sure every would be looter knows you are armed to the teeth with firearms?

 

This was mentioned in another thread but not put in depth. I think if your house looks empty, people would raid it just for a place to stay. But if looters/raiders know you are armed, they can:

 

A: Be afraid of you.

 

or

 

B: Find a way to burn you out or sneak into your home and kill you so they can have you stuff.

 

 

So what would be better, looking like no one is home or making your presence home?

 

 

Or should you find a way to compromise? How would you balance both aspects?

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In my opinion and experience it's ALWAYS better to draw less attention to yourself.

Making your presence known, you WILL without a doubt become a target.

 

Remaining quiet and incognito, you might have some encounters with raiders/looters. But if you make your presence known, those same desperate looters seeing you there, knowing you have supplies they need; they WILL NOT leave until they get what they want. You say 'well i have alot of ammo', I say .. those looters will group up with other desperate people and come back a day or 2 later with more looters and more determination.

 

THey won't 'be afraid' of you. THey'll find a way to get what they want. What else do they have to do ?

Edited by NavyVet_77

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I want it to look like we're armed to the teeth cause we will be. I want it to look like it's inhabited by some crazy, mean old S.O.B. who doesn't give a damn and doesn't want to make any new friends.

 

Itll be 'your home' against ALL AND ANY who are less equiped than you. An unknown/unlimited number of enemy against your well-defended but limited supply.

 

If you remain quiet, quickly and decisively take out any who try to break in, then 1. they wont be alive and 2if someone escapes they won't KNOW for sure that you live there. You could still mearly be a passer-by who got there first.

 

Dont let arrogance and Ego get you killed

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Guest survival101

I'll be really interested to see where this thread goes. Today I was looking at sites with info about how to fortify your home/house against intruders. I was surprised that no one was showing more innovative ideas on "how-to." All the standard info was being provided, like boarding the windows with pre-cut plywood, etc... I was looking for more info about how to defend the home. So, I'd say you have to walk a fine line. You can't look like you have anything to steal/loot, but at the same time you have to devise unique perimeter defense and so forth. I don't know. Let's hear what you all say...

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I disagree my friend, why would anyone pick a well defended death trap over an easier target? It's not worth it...they might sneak around and try to get in, once, but bad news travels fast. You've got to understand I am far from any metropolitan areas, anybody sniffing around this far out in the toolies is either from here or just passing through. No large group will come out here, there are better places to find what they want, plus most of my neighbors are alot meaner and tougher than I am, and I share with them, and they with me. We already do it, we help each other, so I have nothing to fear from them.

In a big city, I would take your advice, absolutely.

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I'll be really interested to see where this thread goes. Today I was looking at sites with info about how to fortify your home/house against intruders. I was surprised that no one was showing more innovative ideas on "how-to." All the standard info was being provided, like boarding the windows with pre-cut plywood, etc... I was looking for more info about how to defend the home. So, I'd say you have to walk a fine line. You can't look like you have anything to steal/loot, but at the same time you have to devise unique perimeter defense and so forth. I don't know. Let's hear what you all say...
"HOW-TO" fortify your home is one thing. But the debate is whether or not to make yourself known to other people in the area.

 

As for how to prep.... I say pipe bombs and booby-traps

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I disagree my friend, why would anyone pick a well defended death trap over an easier target? It's not worth it...they might sneak around and try to get in, once, but bad news travels fast. You've got to understand I am far from any metropolitan areas, anybody sniffing around this far out in the toolies is either from here or just passing through. No large group will come out here, there are better places to find what they want, plus most of my neighbors are alot meaner and tougher than I am, and I share with them, and they with me. We already do it, we help each other, so I have nothing to fear from them.

In a big city, I would take your advice, absolutely.

Its unavoidable. They may hit those other targets before you. Dont be naive enough to think they'll just forget about you. Your turn to be invaded WILL come.

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"HOW-TO" fortify your home is one thing. But the debate is whether or not to make yourself known to other people in the area.

 

As for how to prep.... I say pipe bombs and booby-traps

I agree, I would also make sure any unneeded windows or doors are covered in plywood or sheet steel.

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"Pipe bombs and booby traps"? I sincerely hope you are speaking rhetorically on this VERY public forum. I for one would not want to see this site shut down by those who are already looking for any excuse to marginalize those of us who believe

in emergency preparedness, all because of a casually tossed remark. WE need to be THE example of integrity since our

current Administration love to foment discontent in THEIR fringe electorate occupying forces. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Not trying to flame you at all, some things are better left in private thoughts.

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Its unavoidable. They may hit those other targets before you. Dont be naive enough to think they'll just forget about you. Your turn to be invaded WILL come.

I know it will, but then the real S will HTF, it's my place, and I won't leave or hide. If they want it they will have to pay for it.

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HOW-TO:

 

Point taken Malcolm

 

Post -edited

 

I previously gave a How-To for perimeter defence.. but removed that stuff.

it sounded too para-military for a public forum.

Edited by NavyVet_77

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Its a n important choice:

 

Do you want your house to look empty, or do you want to make sure every would be looter knows you are armed to the teeth with firearms? QUOTE]

 

 

never EVER show the enemy more than they need to see. EEEEEEVER!.

if you do, they will then be able to come up with a plan to take you out as they will know what they are up against. its like playing poker with your cards showing.

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I've enjoyed the art of sniping & will be doing it mainly at night time.

Taking out gang bangers one at a time before they reach 100 yards from my place.

Looters will be sh!tting their pants when they see their buddy's being taken down one at a time & not knowing where

the shots are comming from. My house already has a alarm system with a battery back up.

Have a dog that would let us know if someone is close by that she does now anyways.

Oh & having NV Night Vision equipment is something i'll be using at night. LOL.

Having neighbours part of your team will help. There are 4 of them in my group with walkie talkies to communicate.

We will be guarding our area in shifts. Majority of the looting will be done in the first 3 weeks when all hell brakes loose.

After that i think 90% of the population would be dead, if they did'nt prepare at all. Personaly i think things will be crazy in the first week when the SHTF. Alot of angry & dead people as well. I've said enough, & will zip my lips.

Edited by P210SIG
Too much info given.

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P210SIG,

You're probably right about the first 3 weeks of chaos. THe very worst of the chaos would start in 2nd week

once all unprepared and desperate people have used up all the looted supplies. It will then truely be survival of the fittist. No one will sleep much in those first 3days anyhow.

Day-4 people will be knapping and droning.

 

THe 90% thing though, not so much. It's interesting that you're neighbors are collectively on board as prepers.

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Bottom line this discussion is a real hot bed, I for one will be practicing light and noise discipline to minimize our exposure, but anyone who comes to my house in a SHTF better walk straight up the walk and knock! I will not be easy or forgiving of anyone wo I think is up to anything at all. As far as "hardening a home" goes there are many ways to do so as I have mentioned before here hog panels for the windows and doors are a cheap and easy way to secure a home, security for a home is not about being able to sit back while people crash against your defenses, it's about holding them long enough to put a shot of 00 in their chest upside instead of in the middle of your living room. Again I must say that the use of illegal lethal traps and the like are best not discussed here. The use of certain words together WILL get the attention of those who we don't want looking in.

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Having bullet proof vest with plates will give you a better chance of surviving, as long as one does'nt recieve a head shot buy a bullet.

 

An actual bullet-proof vest is very difficult for a civilian to get their hands on, BUT are very simple to make one of your own:

 

-GO to a fabric store, buy the strongest toughest Nylon and canvas you can find.

-Get some backpack shoulder straps... with waist buckle if possible.

-Measure your chest/back etc. anywhere you feel comfortable carrying a metal plate.

-Cut (torch required) 1/4" steel plates to size. THe plates will also have to be heated and curved to better fit your body, rather than just a flat plate. We are useing 1/4 steel because a 7.62 round can go through a 27gauge metal trash easily, and typical car doors today won't stop most bullets either.

-Sew the fabric into a 'pouch' or 'pocket' big enough to fit your steel plate inside nice and snug (snug enough so it wont jiggle with movement and stay in place on your body. For sewing thread, for the lack of a better option, I suggest using heavy fishing line (20lb test or better) with 2 lines of double-stitch

Edited by NavyVet_77

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An actual bullet-proof vest is very difficult for a civilian to get their hands on, BUT are very simple to make one of your own:

 

-GO to a fabric store, buy the strongest toughest Nylon and canvas you can find.

-Get some backpack shoulder straps... with waist buckle if possible.

-Measure your chest/back etc. anywhere you feel comfortable carrying a metal plate.

-Cut (torch required) 1/4" steel plates to size. THe plates will also have to be heated and curved to better fit your body, rather than just a flat plate. We are useing 1/4 steel because a 7.62 round can go through a 27gauge metal trash easily, and typical car doors today won't stop most bullets either.

-Sew the fabric into a 'pouch' or 'pocket' big enough to fit your steel plate inside nice and snug (snug enough so it wont jiggle with movement and stay in place on your body. For sewing thread, for the lack of a better option, I suggest using heavy fishing line (20lb test or better) with 2 lines of double-stitch

 

Already own afew level 4 BP vests with ceramic plates. I'm a RO & was a firearms instructor. Got tired of teaching YA WHOS/Moroons doing their safety course & the BS from time to time.

Roll steel as plates will not stop any 338LM round. Boy do i know.

Hardox & Armox steel, now your talking. Played with these types of steel & they rock.

Edited by P210SIG

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An actual bullet-proof vest is very difficult for a civilian to get their hands on, BUT are very simple to make one of your own:

 

-GO to a fabric store, buy the strongest toughest Nylon and canvas you can find.

-Get some backpack shoulder straps... with waist buckle if possible.

-Measure your chest/back etc. anywhere you feel comfortable carrying a metal plate.

-Cut (torch required) 1/4" steel plates to size. THe plates will also have to be heated and curved to better fit your body, rather than just a flat plate. We are useing 1/4 steel because a 7.62 round can go through a 27gauge metal trash easily, and typical car doors today won't stop most bullets either.

-Sew the fabric into a 'pouch' or 'pocket' big enough to fit your steel plate inside nice and snug (snug enough so it wont jiggle with movement and stay in place on your body. For sewing thread, for the lack of a better option, I suggest using heavy fishing line (20lb test or better) with 2 lines of double-stitch

 

Actually not that hard to get.... A local mil surplus store just had several flak vests for sale, they had taken one to the range and shot it with several different handgun rounds and I was surprised at the performance of these old vests they stopped 9mm, .38, .40, .45,7.62x25 mostly and most .357 even, or you can get them on crAigslist seen seveRal class III and some IV And V. I have also seen ballistic riot shields class III And better for sale in surplus. If your looking for home or office Hardening search "bullet proof panels" there are several companies that sell 4'x8' panel that are classIII and better look into police stations closing (as many are being moved to "newer locations to better service you...I mean serve you" they have these panel in the dispatchers room walls.). Even taking all the old clothes in you attic and piling them in a mound against the wall can and will stop a bullet, a stack of yellow pages with the edge of the pages facing the LOF will stop 9mm down have seen two rows with 1/4" plywood between stop a 2 3/4" 12ga slug

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I would make the property appear like it has been looted and taken over complete with all the nasties, but I never put my eggs in one basket I'd be prepared to give them hell and still be able to bug out when faced with overwhelming odds while giving them hell the enitre way making them pay for every inch this way the first impression is that we're just another looting force that took the property by force therefore making a clear implication that we are capable of defending ourselves and giving them a hell of a fight. This also gives the impression that the place has already been strip mined while not letting on that you have an vested interest in the property. This makes it less likely that they're willing to shed alot of blood over it because there's not a lot worth having there to make it worth it. When I choose a target I'm not just choosing it to get into a fight and take their guns and ammo if I come across a group that is scavanging or that just looks like they are scavanging or holed up I'm not gonna mess with them unless I am desperate. Now if you come across a piece of property with alot of visable defences well armed defenders running patrols everything's all cleaned up and tidy and they've been there for awhile,( and yes you can tell,) I don't care about all of that I'm going to start gathering intel I'm going to look for your weaknesses I' gonna stay out of your sight then I'm gonna tell a small group about you and after hyping you up a bit I'm going to let them hit you I'm going to watch and see how you react depending on what I see I may send another group after you and hold mine back, after I play with you abit and felt you out know your tactics your defences your MO and the fact that your still sitting there holding that piece of ground tells me its worth it. I'm going to take it from you because at this point I'm going to know what you have and if it's worth taking. If bugging in was your only plan and you didn't plan for a contingency there you will die anybody that survives will be at my mercy.

 

It doesn't matter how well prepared you are, how stocked you are, or how great you think your defences are in a fixed defensive position you lack the ability to act and to move your only reponse is to react which puts you completely at the attacking forces whim. The only thing you can do is to try to incur enough damage to make them give up and go away. In a survival situation when you're talking about supplies and food. It is always worth it. Thats just the reality of survival and those of you out there that believe your preps will last you through everything and that you won't be one of those marauders should probably re-evaluate all of your presupositions, your training and your preps because you will be the lambs when SHTF me my preps are for emergency purposes to fall back on when there is no choice. I am a predator and I know it. I will hold back my resources and live off resources I'm able to cultivate, raise, capture, find, or steal therefore giving me an added cushion after it all goes to hell. If you don't think and plan like the hunter you will be the lambs. In a recoverable Emergency you live off your preps in a SHTF event it can go both ways society could recover and if it is going to live off your preps then again maybe not. If not or a TEOTWAWKI event your supplies, your preps should be your emergency reserve or else you waste your resources and when you run out you have nothing else to fall back on if you didn't go out and scavange and supliment your supplies you just postponed the inevitable, gardens and livestock dont cover everything a year without a summer could kill every plant in you garden and 2/3rds of your livestock where are you then. Sorry if I am not Dr. Feelgood I personally side with Murphy's cousin Larry "Murphy is an F$%# optimist"when mans society falls it tends to fall far, hard and fast and it generaly takes several hundred years for him to dig his head out of his rear and fix it. I make no apologies for myself, my family will survive and I will do my best for that to be done honorably but I know others will not it is better that I can think like them and if need be act like them than not.

Edited by warrior7r

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I live in an urban environment, and I live in an apartment complex on the ground floor. I prep for Hurricane disaster, and all of the trouble that comes after it.

 

For the situation that I prep for, and the environment I live in, being discrete is the best answer. In any 'defend my home' situation, you need to have more than one layer of defense. Those who mention having a perimeter, an alarm system, guard animals, physically hardening the building, or wearing personal body armor were all describing layers of defense. The best defense has more than one layer, we all seem to agree on that.

 

To me, your very first layer starts with avoiding detection altogether. If the bad guys don't perceive your home as a target they don't come looking for trouble. If you can't avoid being noticed, then you aim to deceive the bad guys as much as possible, and to limit the useful information they can get by simple observation. If you can, you decoy them into approaching so they place themselves at a tactical disadvantage.

 

Different ways to deceive an observer were discussed in other threads, so I won't rehash all of that again, but here is one example: Practice noise and light discipline so you don't attract people who are passing through the neighborhood a block or two away. Lights can be seen a long way away, and sound carries. Don't set up your rainwater collector right outside of your apartment. Use an extra tarp (etc) to make one of the apartments in the building across the parking lot look like it's inhabited, or park your vehicle in front of that apartment instead of your own. Anyone who moves on that other apartment with bad intentions will be clearly visible to you, while you will be behind them (giving you the tactical advantage and the element of surprise, if you need to engage them).

 

If you fish or hunt, you should understand why prey animals need to avoid being noticed by predators, for as long as possible. (Make no mistake, you are cast in the role of 'prey animal' in this discussion, since we are talking about defending your location.)

 

Take fishing for example - if you arrive at a lake, and everything looks calm, you're going to pick a spot you hope might have fish and toss your line in to try your luck. If you don't get any bites in a while, you'll move along and try your luck elsewhere. But if you walk up to that lake and see a few splashes in one area, or you see fish biting at insects on the surface, you are going to start fishing right there at that spot - and chances are you will be willing to hang around a lot longer before you give up. In an urban environment like a big city, there are literally tens of thousands of places to scavenge for supplies or seek shelter - being discrete greatly increases the odds that your place will not be chosen by others.

 

Finally, being discrete is important if your particular scenario (like mine) involves the eventual return of law enforcement or other legitimate authorities, like National Guard troops. A low key defense is less likely to appear like a threat to order and peace, and therefore less likely to encourage a confrontation. If a platoon of grunts sweeps through my apartment complex looking for rioters/looters/idiots with guns, I will probably be the one who initiates contact (because they are over there looking at the decoy apartment). I'll be able to adjust my appearance as needed before they see me, and I'll present myself as a lawful resident (and an Army veteran) who is quietly looking after things in his neighborhood. That is more likely to get cooperation than any other method, and I don't sacrifice my advantages of surprise and terrain if things DO go wrong.

Edited by survivalcyclist
clarify predator vs prey attitude

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AS survivalcyclist has said, being discrete is 1st thing.

Its Like they say, Speak sotfly and carry a big stick. booby traps and early alarms systems are a must as well.

I have not done it yet, but the body armor is something I will invest in.

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Itll be 'your home' against ALL AND ANY who are less equiped than you. An unknown/unlimited number of enemy against your well-defended but limited supply.

 

If you remain quiet, quickly and decisively take out any who try to break in, then 1. they wont be alive and 2if someone escapes they won't KNOW for sure that you live there. You could still mearly be a passer-by who got there first.

 

Dont let arrogance and Ego get you killed

 

bingo.. 30 or 40 unarmed but desperate scared people is still a force to be reckoned with especially if its just you or you and your family. when they are that bad off just because you have guns wont mean shit to them when they are already staring death in the face everyday they are still breathing. Most likley at that point they will be more than willing to take casualties if in the end it means them getting your stuff to have a fighting chance.quantity and desperation has a quality all its own

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