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mr.smashy

Sovereign Citizen Movement

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I was in court the other day (I was not appearing), and someone contested a ticket via mail as a sovereign citizen. He refused to accept or recognize any authority of the government to govern his travel on the road. He also stated that any further communication with him from the government or it's agents would be trespassing, and included a trespass notice. The notice warned state, local, and federal governments that as a free man he was not subject to a long list of types of laws, and any attempts to contact regarding those laws would be trespassing and would result in a $1,000 fine per attempt, to be paid in silver coins.

 

Everyone was pretty astonished that something like this had made it this far north (Chicago), because last month there was a warning about them in a Southern LEO publication. People laughed and poked fun, but there was a bit of uneasiness to the situation as well. I guess this is something that is growing. I just looked it up: Sovereign citizen movement on Wiki. The wiki states that the SPLC estimated that approximately 100,000 Americans are "hard-core sovereign believers".

 

So what do you think?

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If the SPLC is against it, then it must be a GREAT thing for one thought. I actually think they have something legit, altho most tend to go overboard. I would agree that you can keep the gov't from trespassing but if you are driving on the public roads; you voluntarily agree to abide by the laws governing their use. It does shock me that it was used in a 'shitago" court room though; I just figured everyone was used to corruption and tyranny in cRook county...lol.

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I like the humor, especially the silver coin part.

 

But in relaity he is hurting the rest of us who want less regulations and government involvement in our lives because people like this need someone to watch over them and make our legitimate arguments fall on deaf ears.

 

The delivery of your view in politics is as essential as the delivery of a good joke, and this guy has bad delivery.

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I like the humor, especially the silver coin part.

 

But in relaity he is hurting the rest of us who want less regulations and government involvement in our lives because people like this need someone to watch over them and make our legitimate arguments fall on deaf ears.

 

The delivery of your view in politics is as essential as the delivery of a good joke, and this guy has bad delivery.

 

I think this is pretty much how I feel. I identify with the movement in so much as I believe I am a free man, and want less government regulation, but this individual and the sovereign movement take it too far to fast and end up hurting those of us who want sensible changes.

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I just want the gov't employees to remember their Oath of Office, honor the Constitution, and I'll even accept being half as honest and loyal to this nation and its People as a normal American. The biggest problem is that we have too many "goat riders" who got "hit on the head" in office.

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So what happened in the case?

 

While I understand the need for rules and regulations, I admit, I have questioned (to myself) the gov't right to fine me for breaking them. First let me state that I am not a speeder. I actually go 70-72mph on the interstate (speed limit 70 in my area) But, there are several roads in my area that have ridiculously low speed limits, 25 when they shouls be 45-55mph. What single person (or panel) has the right to tell me that I have to go so slow on them? What recourse do we have as citizens to appeal? None. You can go before the city council, but mine is notorious for shutting down complaining citizens. Even those with legitimate gripes. I do not normally drive on these roads, so I am not starting a gripe. It is just something that crossed my mind once or twice. seemed relavent to this topic... Just to get things started. ;-)

 

Or what about it now being illegal to ride in the back of a pick-up. A true staple of childhood and Americana has been removed. Or hell, I'll throw this in there to... What about seatbelts? What right does the state have to tell me that I have to wear it. Or my local sound ordinance... If it can be heard 5ft from the vehicle, you get a ticket. Yes 5FT!!! My passenger side spaeker is 4ft from me... So, if I can hear it, so can someone 5ft from the car. Yet, I can hear police motorcycle radios inside my house as they pass on the street... Go figure.

 

Please dont construe these comments as my being one of these Sovereign Citizens. I am not. I stop at stop signs, dont speed, wear my seatbelt (most of the time) and pay my taxes. I just put those out there to inspire conversation...

Edited by Ready?4What?

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......

Or what about it now being illegal to ride in the back of a pick-up.

What about seatbelts?

Or my local sound ordinance...

.........I just put those out there to inspire conversation...

 

The most common answer you will get is that those law (excluding the seatbelt law) exist to keep you from hurting someone else. Now I do not claim to know why or how speed limits are set but I AM ENTIRELY AGAINST SEATBELT LAWS THAT PUNISH THE DRIVER. You can fine me whatever for not requiring a minor to buckle up in my car but all the seatbelt law on drivers is the government caving in the insurnace lobby.

 

I received a ticket for not wearing my belt one day on a 1/4 mile round trip to friends house in residential neighborhood. The cop said it was a law to keep me from hurting myself, which I thought was funny and he asked why. I made some smart arse comment about maybe he charge a failed suicide attempt with assualt, or even murder if they were sucessful. He got real red faced and I ended it with what they really hate, "hope nothing really bad happens while you pulled me over to write a $10 seatbelt ticket"

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I just want the gov't employees to remember their Oath of Office, honor the Constitution, and I'll even accept being half as honest and loyal to this nation and its People as a normal American. The biggest problem is that we have too many "goat riders" who got "hit on the head" in office.

'Normal American'??? I resemble that remark!:) As a GS-13 I AM a 'mid-level government functionary':P! OK, having said that, I basically agree with all of the above. Just as I support the concept of "free hold" states. If my land can be taken for back taxes, I don't own it, I only lease it from the govt with a LARGE deposit. Folks forget that a license is the state's way of letting you break the law for a fee. It is illegal in most states to drive a car. The state issues licenses that allow you to break that law. Our biggest problem may be that the oath of office (same one military takes, by the way) means nothing to way too many government employees.

While I may be right in thinking that the income tax is illegal (to choose one example) as long as the state has the police power, I either obey the rules or go to jail. If I consider it important enough to go to jail, then I will violate the law. Otherwise, I'll try to get it changed via the political process.

I do find it is amazing that this popped up in the Al Capone City. People seem to be getting a belly full of the government - either because it is taking too many freedoms or because it isn't giving them enough 'bread and circuses'. Just my not so humble opinion.

Edited by Capt Bart

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So what happened in the case?

 

The judge saw the evidence, found him liable, and ordered a notice to be sent to him via mail to collect a fine for the violation. Just like every other case that was found liable.

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'Normal American'??? I resemble that remark!:) As a GS-13 I AM a 'mid-level government functionary':P!

 

Capt., I was a "low level" gov't employee, in so far as I just got out of the Army Reserves. I should have clarified my opinion as to "gov't employees" from above post = the ones working in the Capital and Executive offices. Even if taking the conspiracy theorists idealogy to heart (I'm on the fence for most of them at best), I believe most low level and mid level employees are there for their love of country and wanting to help their fellow Americans. I do NOT trust the senior management of probably any gov't entity to do what is good for America or even what is right/honest.

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......I believe most low level and mid level employees are there for their love of country and wanting to help their fellow Americans. .....

 

my local post office has some folks that would defy that reasoning.

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Yeah, I almost had to sue the postal service to get my mail delivered. I used to live in a cul de sac. If a car was parked anywhere in the circle, the postman would not deliver to ANY of the houses in the circle. He would leave nasty notes saying that a car was blocking my mailbox (left them in all of the mailboxes) about every two or three weeks. I ended up video taping him bypassing all the mailboxes and then duplicating his proper route in a full size GMC van to prove that the mailboxes were accessable. ALL of them. Postman was replaced and 6 months later the new one started doing the same thing. When I reshowed the video to the postmaster and threatened suite, I had no other problems...

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Yeah, I almost had to sue the postal service to get my mail delivered. I used to live in a cul de sac. If a car was parked anywhere in the circle, the postman would not deliver to ANY of the houses in the circle. He would leave nasty notes saying that a car was blocking my mailbox (left them in all of the mailboxes) about every two or three weeks. I ended up video taping him bypassing all the mailboxes and then duplicating his proper route in a full size GMC van to prove that the mailboxes were accessable. ALL of them. Postman was replaced and 6 months later the new one started doing the same thing. When I reshowed the video to the postmaster and threatened suite, I had no other problems...

 

 

I went in my post office two years ago, for the last time, late at night to buy stamps from the machine and mail a few bills (more secure than leaving info in your mailbox). The machine had been removed so I returned the following day, stood in 4 person line for 20 minutes, and watched the employees being highly lazy.

 

When I bought my stamps I asked what happened to the stamp machine and when would it be back b/c I prefered to come at night to save time at work. She told me "they" took it out b/c people used it more than the line and "they" thought it was bad for the "workers".

 

Pay everything online and that was my last trip in there, if I need stamps I buy them at grocery store or use FedEx.

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Capt., I was a "low level" gov't employee, in so far as I just got out of the Army Reserves. I should have clarified my opinion as to "gov't employees" from above post = the ones working in the Capital and Executive offices. Even if taking the conspiracy theorists idealogy to heart (I'm on the fence for most of them at best), I believe most low level and mid level employees are there for their love of country and wanting to help their fellow Americans. I do NOT trust the senior management of probably any gov't entity to do what is good for America or even what is right/honest.

 

Well except DMV which is just a government conspiracy to harvest hours of your life to fuel their cyborg Walt Disney unfreezing project well concurrently shuffling ungodly amounts of paper work to the furness to heat the building. Those government employees are not there to help their fellow Americans.

 

The problem with this guys argument is he is driving on public roads. If it was private property he could race around at 100 miles an hour while ghost riding his car and the police couldn't do a damn thing.

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I agree Autonomous. Even if I agree with some or most of the movement; by being on public roads and operating avehicle, you agree to follow the regulations. I figure I am a free man and my rights end at the end of someone else's nose (as the saying goes), but I know if I'm running 100 MPH down the highway and get stopped; I'm handing over some of my bank account.

Although regulations are for the most part (IMO), just a way for them to grant more power and control without the need to pass a law and elected officials be held accountable. Most regulations are put in place by non elected bureaucrats. I have alot of friends who drive truck and the regulations are forcing many out of the business. The hours of service regs are discriminatory; why can a truck driver only drive for 11 hours a day when I can get in my car or pick up and drive non stop from NY to CA without any legal repercussions? They are now changing the driving to 10 hours and since they have to show a cost benefit for regulations, they offered that by driving less, truckers will have better eating, sleeping and exercise habits and live longer. The cost benefit, by living longer, they will pay more taxes. To me this just shows the true nature of these bureaucrats as thinking of the People they are supposed to serve, as their property.

Supposedly (not confirmed by myself), they are asking children in school for personal info on the house they live in, how many vehicles their parents own, etc. This info is being processed so they can have families moved into the home at the homeowner's expense (including food, use of vehicle(s), etc) at no cost to the "adopted" family/persons, nor covered by the state. I heard about it in mid September while there for a funeral. If this is true, how will it cascade through the rest of the nation?

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Just remember that a license (drivers, pilots, ham, practice medicine, etc) is the government's way of allowing illegal activity for a fee! Most folks don't realize that it is illegal to drive a car. Just get caught without a license and you'll find out it is. We have had our heads screwed around because of years of nanny state care. I don't need a license to ride a horse or to sail a boat (at least in Texas and federal waters) so those activities are legal. Get caught flying a plane though and you're in trouble. Most folks never think about the fact that many, perhaps most, military pilots do not have pilots licenses. The civilian laws don't apply to them! Try reading them sometimes. Like conceal carry laws, a great many of them start with words like "It is unlawful too....."

 

Freedom goes away by dribbles and drips.

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I have a question..here is a site that I enjoy ,http://www.coppermoonshinestills.com/id53.html

and he has at the bottom of his site on the left.

BEAT THE LAW "HOW TO GET DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY"..is this the same????as what is being spoken about?? He does have good music to listen to,and no I dont think anyone who reads this needs to purchase his "copper" just to be clear.

So those that are better informed please continue to edgeamacate me.

oh Babaman are you sure we arnt related?????...LMAO..

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I have a question..here is a site that I enjoy ,http://www.coppermoonshinestills.com/id53.html

and he has at the bottom of his site on the left.

BEAT THE LAW "HOW TO GET DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY"..is this the same????as what is being spoken about?? He does have good music to listen to,and no I dont think anyone who reads this needs to purchase his "copper" just to be clear.

So those that are better informed please continue to edgeamacate me.

oh Babaman are you sure we arnt related?????...LMAO..

101matt,

This is like the guys that claim the income tax is illegal or they don't need a driver's license. The problem is that these things may, in fact, be true and valid points BUT the various state and federal courts up to and including the SCOTUS have ruled otherwise. Thy this stunt and you will have the consolation of knowing your rights were violated while sitting in your prison cell. Regardless of whether this guy is right or not, the enforcement power of the legal system is against him. Note he is NOT an attorney and this IS NOT legal advice. He says so himself. Quote him in your trial and you'll be laughed at. If he is called in he will claim it is for entertainment value only and he told you not to do it! The "Republic of Texas" guys tried it here in Texas and the Good Lord knows we are somewhat tolerant of that sort of thing but the guys who claimed immunity are now all in prison.

Before breaking any laws, make sure the price you must pay is worth the principal you are standing up for. Fighting back when they come for your guns may be worth the price but the price could well be your life. Almost certainly will be your freedom. Best case you escape and become a fugitive. Only you can decide where the "tipping point" is; the point beyond which you will not go. Our ruling elites are very good at stopping just short of triggering that level of disobedience from the population. "We don't want your hunting rifles, just those nasty assault guns. No one NEEDS a 17 round magazine to hunt quail" kind of thing. That is how England and Australia lost their guns.

Edited by Capt Bart
clearing up wrong words

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Thanks Capt Bart,I have lived to long to take advice from people that dont practice what they preach,and Its about Money in his case,getting people to purchase over priced and fancy copper..But thats on him.

We in America were asleep and lazy for 40 years,now the extreamist of both side are going nuts and we can look foward to somebody (left or right) doing something VERY stupid in the near future.

I dont like the Idea of being "Jessie James"but I can see his point.In the end and I hope all can see my point is,we as men will do "anything" if we can justify it in our minds and have no displine in our thoughts or live in a "fear' state of mind that always causes us to KNEE jerk everything.

OK deep breath...in ....out ..... in....out...wooooshaaaa....thats better,Pray.....

Going grey means a lot more today than ever,and DAD said to give in secret and he would give in public..loose translation...

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