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Urban Wolf

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if a forced march leaves an army exhausted then i guess Patton was an idiot

 

ammo not what caliber but how much as long as you can return fire your viable if not your toast

 

Nathan Bedford Forrest a lieutenant general in the Confederate army, not lacking in bravery

stated the essence of strategy was 'to git thar fust with the most men'."

or as misquoted the furstus with the mostus.

by common sense still holds true more is better in men or ammo.

 

If you cannot define the duration of escape or defense then how can less ammo be useful.

 

where do you get LOTS of guns ammo ammo ammo and for non military personnel it does not have to be

.308 if 1,000 rounds of 22 long rifle or 10 pounds of ammo over loads a person then that's a total shame.

 

a ruger 10/22 w/ 10 & 25 round factory mags and a ruger MK I - III or 22/45 with 10 round mags

your under 10 pounds for all of it including optics.

10 more pounds 1,000 rounds of ammo add a BMF activator and your crappin' in tall cotton and wiping with

green leaves {that's a good thing}.

 

if you get home and nothing is left but a charred hulk then what have you got but what is on your back

and if your toting a battle rifle and all you find is a bird to eat go ahead shoot it I am sure bird legs

are tasty cause that's all your going to end up with.

or blood shot meat or worse.

 

defense is not killing it is enough force to cease the attack although 22 is not non lethal.

bugging out places anyone at an extreme disadvantage period an individual cannot

carry enough to support themselves for more than a few days if that was not true

then we would send troupes with nothing but what was on there back.

like the Spartans of course all the friendlies along the way supported them or were killed

as enemies and stripped of needed goods.

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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I think it all depends on the person. IF I decide to bug out, it will be by vehicle, so I'll be taking everything. If I have to go a long distance on foot, I'll be carrying a Sig 226, Sig 229 as backup, AR, .308 bolt gun and 12g shotgun in my Eberlestock pack. Both the Sigs take the same mags and both are 9mm. I've got about 10 mags total, so those loaded, plus about 500 rounds. I'll take prolly 300 rounds a piece for the .308 and 12g and as much as I can carry for the AR, at least 9 loaded mags in my vest plus all the loaded mags I can in my pack.

 

For some people that's not a realistic loadout, for me it is. With the pack full and the bolt gun in it, its only about 30lbs. Add another 35 for the shotgun and all the ammo and you're at 65lbs. With other gear added, I should be right around 80lbs or so, not bad as long as you don't have to flat out run. Carried half that weight for 13 hours straight a few weeks ago when I completed the GoRuck Challenge (bear crawl, indian runs, team log pt with a 1,00lb log, Australian peels and bounding over watch, its designed by US Army SF to mimic their training). During no time can your pack touch the ground. Point is, everyone will be able to do different things. My parents won't be able to carry as much as I can, and their weapon loadouts reflect that.

 

If I have to E&E, I'll be dropping the pack and moving with the AR, vest, and 226. My vest has its own bladder, IFAK, tools, ammo, and small survival items such as purification tablets, firestarter, etc. Watch has a compass, barometer, altimeter, etc so I'm set there. My plan, if you can plan for this type of thing is to bug in, if I have to leave and I'm not coming back, that's what I'll be taking. If I'm coming back in a week or so, I might halve what I listed ammo wise, maybe not.

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Snake, you certainly do have some strange logic, to connect a cavalryman famous for traveling light and espousing 'mobility and maneuver over all else' to your advice to 'carry lots more ammo'. Probably not worth trying to understand all of the other random things you threw in there, so forget I mentioned it.

 

@JonM1911 - so you are only going to carry 15 pounds of gear that isn't weapons or ammo? Out of 80 pounds? Or did I misunderstand the way you laid out the math? The reason I ask is that doing the math, 300 rounds of 12 gauge (12 boxes of 25 shells each) and 500 rounds of 9mm (115gr w/50 rounds per box) comes to about 48 pounds. Before the 300 rounds of .308, or the loaded magazines for the SIGs or the loaded magazines for the AR...or the guns themselves.

Edited by survivalcyclist
added math check to my reply

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@JonM1911 - so you are only going to carry 15 pounds of gear that isn't weapons or ammo? Out of 80 pounds? Or did I misunderstand the way you laid out the math? The reason I ask is that doing the math, 300 rounds of 12 gauge (12 boxes of 25 shells each) and 500 rounds of 9mm (115gr w/50 rounds per box) comes to about 48 pounds. Before the 300 rounds of .308, or the loaded magazines for the SIGs or the loaded magazines for the AR...or the guns themselves.

Unless my scale is horribly off, my Eberlestock pack filled to overflowing with random gear (I wanted a round about weight just to see) and .308 bolt gun was only 30lbs, that also includes 200 rounds of 9mm and 10 loaded AR mags. Add 300 more rounds of 9mm, 300ea of 12g and .308, and prolly 500 of 5.56. Aside from that there isnt much else in the way of extremely heavy stuff I need to carry in the pack. I've been pricing out the gear I need to finish my BOB and it should all come out to about 80lbs. Guess we'll see when I get done.

JonM1911

 

I am with you if I can bug out in a vehicle it's going to look like the Beverly hillbilly mobile.

Haha, same here.

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If I bug out on foot its going to be my BOB (somewhere between 45-50 LBS - still trying to finalize :)) along with my 9x18 Makarov handgun (with 200rds) and a broken down .22LR semi-auto in the BOB pack with 1000rd. If things are bad enough that I can convince my wife to carry a weapon, my plan is to give her the .22 rifle and I'll add a broken down Mosin Nagant with 10 preloaded stripper clips (50 rds of 7.62x54r) to my pack. My ideal would be to add another .22 rifle to the equation (so my wife and I can both carry one in a bug out on foot scenario), but a college student's budget doesn't allow that right now. In our neck of the woods, a semi-auto .22LR has more than enough range to be a lethal deterrant to anyone who has ill-intent, and is light enough to carry easily with sufficient ammo. The Mosin Nagant is coming along for hunting purposes and long range BOL defence (and I hope to God I don't need it for the second purpose).

Edited by murjd17

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Florida presents limited possibilities in bugging out. Getting off the highways would be met with swimming, crawling, and flying critters all of which either bite or sting. First instinct would be to load the vehicle with all ammo, rifles, shotgun, and several handguns of varying specialties then realizing at best the tank of gas would get me approximately 300 miles w/o refueling - and if no fuel then abandon everything where the vehicle stopped. Three hundred miles still gets you to swamp. I doubt anyone will offer transportation with firearms being exposed so that leaves the armament for pickings. Sure is a feeling of SOL. With the tension mounting in this country over Stand Your Ground brings us pretty close to RWOL in many of our cities.

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Florida presents limited possibilities in bugging out. Getting off the highways would be met with swimming, crawling, and flying critters all of which either bite or sting. First instinct would be to load the vehicle with all ammo, rifles, shotgun, and several handguns of varying specialties then realizing at best the tank of gas would get me approximately 300 miles w/o refueling - and if no fuel then abandon everything where the vehicle stopped. Three hundred miles still gets you to swamp. I doubt anyone will offer transportation with firearms being exposed so that leaves the armament for pickings. Sure is a feeling of SOL. With the tension mounting in this country over Stand Your Ground brings us pretty close to RWOL in many of our cities.

 

Wardog,

in that country, something to stop gators and bug repellant! Parts of Louisiana are the same way. Still, vehicle is everything that can fit, foot is, well something to stop gators and bug repellant!

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Florida presents limited possibilities in bugging out. Getting off the highways would be met with swimming, crawling, and flying critters all of which either bite or sting. First instinct would be to load the vehicle with all ammo, rifles, shotgun, and several handguns of varying specialties then realizing at best the tank of gas would get me approximately 300 miles w/o refueling - and if no fuel then abandon everything where the vehicle stopped. Three hundred miles still gets you to swamp. I doubt anyone will offer transportation with firearms being exposed so that leaves the armament for pickings. Sure is a feeling of SOL. With the tension mounting in this country over Stand Your Ground brings us pretty close to RWOL in many of our cities.

Do you have room to add some extra fuel storrage in your vehicle? Depending on what you're driving, it may not get you much further. I know that every mile I drive instead of walking (especially in that terrain) is a mile worth it.

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murjd17(somewhere between 45-50lbs) is about what I got mine to.

Lots of great advice here, but im still undicided. I will bring as much as I can, just dont know how its gonna be divided up.

 

Urban,

you should consider that your primary mission will be move as quickly as possible without detection. Think light, think planned caches along the way. The less you carry the faster you will be. The fewer people that you encounter the lighter your need for ammo. Plan on having ammo at you BOL and caches.

Water is heavy and you will tear through it faster than you plan. If you are on foot then plan on water resources and filtering. So many will forget this one part of the GOOD planning and will be dumping gear to lighten their load just to possibly make their destination.

45-50 lbs packs will probably keep the average person to 7.5 to 10 miles max per day. a 25 lbs pack will increase you averages to 20 miles per day. of course these are just averages. there are many variables that could effect the distance.

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Might be a stupid question, but what is a good basic load of ammo for bug out?

I thinking 50 rds for each weapon.

Any ideas?

 

Dont know what kind of weapon u plan to be carrying. But myself, I'd want all mags full and a whole spare box as minimum.

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Ok Dude if I ever decide to hike 30 miles with 3 gun's I'll be sure to tell you how it went...lol
if your bugging out chances are your gonnna need to hike more than 30 miles, and have a bob weighing 50+ pounds. you might wanna start training to carry all those guns through the bush

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