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I think that we are developing tunnel vision of a sort. I think a lot of us are looking at the short term...and not thinking about the long haul.


Ok, the SHTF and the bottom has dropped out, the goverment went into the toliet and the infrastructure <or law and order to be more accurate> went to hell. You made it to your BOL, you managed to survive the initial six months were the citys emptied and their populations wandered across the country looking for refuge and supplys.


<fast forward a bit>


Its been almost 2 years since you settled in, you have a nice little garden going. You may even have a few critters for various things...


Gas is all but impossible to get so your gas powered cars are now yard art.


What do you do next?

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mules, horses and burros I detest llamas nasty spitting gross MF and stupid all they are good for is

making wool out of even the meat is not as good as goat meat.


horses faster more feed mules strong not as fast but more flexible burros carry a load well fair demeanor

any of these can drag a litter and a balanced load

weather deep snow no burro now its mule or horse rough or hilly terrain a mule a mules hooves are less

trouble than a horse but do need trimming or care you need a pair of farrier nippers 12 inch a hoof knife

and a 12 inch long file rasp one side and fine teeth on the other and you need some instructions

experience is great but a bit hard to come by.


A squeeze chute and a rope to hold the leg up for cattle ox and for horses they need to be staked or tied

after some coaxing they understand what your doing but some do not like their feet messed with and you

may need to get creative with knot tying and or put on a feed bag


oxen are great for pulling heavy loads but slow as christmas and supposedly any breed but

I beg to differ most bulls are not meant to pull and resent it there are a half dozen breeds that

I have seen that were well suited.

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employees. B)


Not if your pulling them... :)


Snakes answer is more what I wanted people to think about.


You have a garden, how are you plowing it? By hand? With an animal? Where/how did you get your plow?


What items have you stockpiled for trade purposes? I know that I left this out of the initial post, that was because I wanted to see how far people had thought ahead.


Everyone knows we need salt so they'll stock up on it...but what about pepper and other spices? Those can very well be trade items.


Others? Toothpaste, toothbrush. Its not always the big things, a lot of times its the little things that will make a difference.


I suspect that if push comes to shove, Snake could end up being the king or duke of his area. The reason? His answers, for the most part they are well thought out. Its not just having a safe place to ride things out...its also about what you do afterwards.


After things shake out I see things being more like they were in the movies "the Postman" and "the book of eli". Because of the unrest I don't see democracy existing as it is today. Choices and decisions will need to be made right NOW not after a debate or a vote you simpily won't have the time for that luxury. So I see the beginings of warlords and a warrior class. The type of milita that we had in the beginings of this country will live again.


In some of the other posts I saw people making negitive comments about bows...newsflash. Bullets are a limited commodity. A lot of us have various firearms. First question I have for you about them is what calibers do you have <don't tell me I don't care>, is the ammo for them compatible with what others in your group carry, or will you all have to carry different types because you can't supply each other if need? Pistols? Rifles? Shotguns?

I have the equipment to load my own, but I am limited by the amount of powder and primers that I have. When they run out, my ability to make more is done. A bow for hunting will allow me to strech my store of them.


Sorry if I started to ramble a bit...but I want you to think this suff through.

Edited by vonBayern

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many of us have hit on this in our previous posts but great to hear it again

I am a NATO standard kind of guy and not because they are the best at all things but they are

the most manufactured calibers in our hemisphere.


the list I have posted many times and the military uses other rounds TRUE but not in the mass numbers

as these.


22 long rifle for training in most all countries

.223 / 5.56 for all NATO troups

.308 / 7.62x51 ditto

9MM/9x19 again

12 gauge one more time.


the 2 outside but gaining ground for many police and security as well as private use would

more than likely be after a and separated so that some quick evidence of who might have made a shot.


38 special

357 magnum

40 smith & wesson

45 may be on this list but I doubt it


moving way from these put you at a distinct disadvantage it does not mean you cannot use another

personal caliber just realize that the ammo you have will probably be all the ammo you will get

even black markets price anything out of the norm at a premium.


in some countries you may not own any military caliber except 22 long rifle and 12 gauge and others

not even these.


I have fired 90% of the calibers in the last century and a few of those in the new and there are so many

great calibers I cannot in all good conscience tell you there is not but that is not what we are

prepping for we are prepping for hard times in hard times there may not be a timely supply chain.


some calibers may not be produced so your only defense is go with the flow autos spit spent brass

so reloading brass will get less and less so for a secondary pistol a rimmed revolver caliber

and have a dump pouch you need one anyway leaving a trail of crumbs is not smart

a brass catcher for your semi auto is a good idea also I can reload berdan aluminum, brass or steel

no I am not explaining it so do not ask.


choosing your equipment has been beat to death almost but I still hear i wanna' 9.31x127 because

fine if you have the money to waste beat feet to the gettin' place and get you one.

and while your at it buy all those pull top cans for your primary food supply and card board contained

prepared meals in a on demand supply chain no problem with temp controlled homes and cars we fail to

grasp that all this food will not last in erratic climates either it will freeze or heat or rust or degrade

much faster aluminum blisters and oxidizes with fluid in the cans it will do so much quicker.


Maybe now you all will understand why I push freeze dried or dehydrated food supply it lasts 4

times longer it has little weight and reconstitutes with more flavor no tinny taste and decent

vitamin values for what it is. every one is worried about water well keep worrying if you barley

have enough to drink you need to limit your protein intake so having enough to make your meal

and enough to drink means your hydration is within limits to survive or you will have kidney and liver

and endocrine problems or failures and blood pressure hell just name it water is the main survival

element and wars have been fought over water and murder as well as wealth and fame on water

and it is also how our overseers will control the population with food and water.


Have we forgotten defoliants and all tower water systems have leakage so in time you will have to learn to manage and store water bugging out is a poor plan if your not savvy on water sources and there will be

dead everywhere we are living on the ragged edge it takes 95% of everything we produce and transport

each day to make it to the next one day of no production and watch the store shelves shrink in three

days the stores will be empty and for every day there is no renewal food rots or overruns its storage

space a packing plant cannot continue to store meat it must ship we have created a monster and it

must be fed or it will self destruct. that is why people in the third world work for nothing and fall asleep

where they work they do not have enough money to live elsewhere or do anything it takes all they make

to eat and what little they need to exist their life is a living slavery.


most of the world is spoiled we think that each day will be the same and we should take a lesson

from history that is never the case complacency kills ignorance kills and lack of respect for what we

have will kill us.

even if we only have a horrible economic downturn for 3 years many will be living on starvation rations

in weeks.

theft of service of water power and even T.V. is a felony under certain circumstances and in many states.


so if you have less work and less pay and the same bills and are having a hard time now what will

you do when gas prices jump when food prices go wild because of fire flood drought freeze

our weather is not exactly cooperating or have you not noticed.


I always like to end my rants with something to make people smile after all I got your forehead all

crinkled up and your mouth is in a frown and your probably saying to yourself who does the SOB think

he is well that is for God to decide.


Here I go, Do you know what the hurricane said to the coconut tree,,,,

hang on to your nuts this is going to be wild ride.



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All you have to do is look back a couple hundred years and you will see what we will have to do to survive, except the hostiles will be equally or better armed than the homesteaders...

That being said, I guess I would concentrate on cooperation with like-minded people to surround myself with, either as neighbors or to share a home with.

Forting up will probably a good idea, especially at night. They say a good defense is the best offense, but I would say being well armed and knowing how to use them is equally important.

Pooling of resources will definitely make things alot easier, so people with specific skills and/or equipment can contribute to the well-being of the group as a whole...

Another thing that will help ensure survival is knowing how to "live off the land" when possible. A couple years after SHTF, the nearby grocery stores and convenience stores may be pretty empty, so you need to have some basic knowledge of what plants can used for food or medicine.

If this new lifestyle sounds appealing to you, then wait, there's more...if you survive the zombies/marauders, starvation, and lack of modern medicine, than you might have a chance against Mother Nature. Without the weather channel, we are going to have to pay attention to barometers and thermometers again, and learn to predict bad weather. Tornadoes, hurricanes, and drought, will take their toll of our agricultural efforts, and some lives as well.

I have a long way to go to be ready for any of this, but am closer than I was....thank SC

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I'm with Jerry I think a community will be the best way to survive if things get long term, our BOL is home, as in where I grew up, there are horses there, they aren't so broke but their mothers were, cattle and hay for them for the immediate, gardening tools of every shade, an old well that just needs a windmill, got that too, but most of all got neighbors that I know will be honest at worst, damn helpful at best, and some old and wise enough to still remember how to pull it off, hell we had a party line phone til about 1990

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yeah but i pick the purdy ones, the rest are just trying to act like they even had a chance to begin with. lol


Too funny!


My friend told me that the three biggest lies in Montana are: "I own my own ranch," "I'm getting a new pickup truck soon," and "I swear, officer, I was just helping that sheep over the fence!"


Another one: What's the difference between a Scotsman and a Rolling Stone? One sings, "Hey, you, get off of my cloud." The other yells, "Hey, McLeod, get off my ewe!"

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