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socalocalypse

Police saw my Maxpedition bag, assumed I must be carrying and searched.

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Long story short, I got pulled over on the way to the shooting range(nice late model car, I looked scuzzy after working at a rental garage).

 

The officer asked where I'm going, I said the shooting range, asked if I had guns in the car, yes they're in the trunk, please step out of the car blah blah blah can I search blah blah you sure do have guns in the trunk...Do you Carry with that Maxpedition bag? (no, I use it for hiking)That's what they're for, carrying!.

 

I had the maxpedition in the back seat because my trunk was too full of guns :rolleyes:

 

I thought his assumption that it meant I was illegally transporting a firearm might be of interest to someone.

 

I've only used it for hiking, but little did I realize park rangers and police I've seen there might have thought I was packing heat! Go figure.

 

I got a cell phone ticket(I've spent months in a state where you can talk on the cell phone legally and recently got back to CA)

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That is why I have two copies of all my bill of sales one that I carry with me in my underseat gun safe and the other in my firebox at home. I have needed these when pulled over(I have a CCW in my state) and I have to tell the officer that I am carrying a concealed weapon on my person, one officer starts in that he is goin to have to take my brand new PF9 in to the station until I can bring in proof of ownership, his partner laughed when I told him that I had all the paper work here and t.hat he was going to have to buy his own.

 

Some of the officers that you meet are problems who are there to enjoy the power of the position, but the majority are just good guys trying to do a job that they may or may not agree with.... And boys and girls remember that a police officer can not be held responsible for advise legal or otherwise in court so they can tell you anything they want it up to you to know your rights!

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I get stopped constantly, and for the last five or six years I've had my weapon on me every time. I've found that if you do everything correctly as far as showing competent and sane carry, they often forget about the original ticket. More times than not, they've thanked me for being polite, and at the very least knocked the ticket down a lot, which is funny because Police officers in my area are usually very rude.

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Interesting. Last time I was stopped for speeding (it was a righteous stop, BTW) I was carrying. The DPS trooper and I had a really nice conversation about 9 mm vs .40 and .45 (I had a Kel Tec 9 in my pocket). He liked his Glock .40 better but was intrigued by the P11's ease of concealment. It was such a pleasant conversation that I wrote a letter of commendation to the officer's Captain. Yes, I got the ticket but like I said, it was a righteous stop. In Texas, the DPS are usually decent folks. I don't mind reasonable questions and I am very sympathetic to their problems. I've found they tend to relax around CHL holders since we are checked already.

 

Some of the local police are a tad more difficult to deal with; the move away from vets toward college grads with CJ degrees has not been without its drawbacks, in my not so humble opinion. The 23 year old combat vet seems a lot more 'seasoned' than the 22 year old fresh out of school grad. At least that is how it appears to me.

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Funny, we must have been frequenting the same websites, as I had a copy of all my DROS and bills of sale with me in the car, on 2 flashdrives in the vehicle, and a copy in my safe at home ! heh :)

 

I'd like to think were I back in Texas, I would not have been assumed to be a law breaker just because I was going to a shooting range.

 

I read a story by an officer that hooked a guy for having the bullet button(that's the mag release cover on ar15s we have to use in cali) misadjusted. I believe that changed his rifle into an illegal assault weapon because the magazine would drop without using a tool to remove it. Bad news.

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Something important that Capt Bart alludes to in his post that would do all of us some good to remember. Traffic stops are known in the law enforcement world as "unknown risk" stops. An officer in the correct survival mindset will approach your vehicle and assume that you are a threat until they know otherwise. This mindset would certainly give you a leg-up in a survival situation.

 

The reason that most officers relax when they realize the person they are stopping is a CCW/CHL carrier is the person with said permit is in a very low threat bracket. CCW/CHL holders are, by definition, law abiding citizens who go above and beyond the call of duty to ensure that they are carrying their weapons as allowed by local and state laws.

 

Your point about the bag is an interesting one though. I believe in the BOB article that there was mention to avoiding bags that would point to you being a prepared person. Maxpedition bags are sold at many law enforcement supply stores and websites, and they are marketed as "concealed carry bags."

Edited by Major Krisis

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Good points all. I know a couple of LEOs who are also preppers, so they frequent these same sites. Good guys. Anyway, when I go to the range I always use a nylon tool bag for transporting my pistols and gear. Nobody looks twice at these as they are so generic, but for me they work as well or better as the much more expensive "shooting" or Maxpedition bags.

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Guest kevin

sigh......not that long ago you could carry guns in a gun rack (in texas)strapped to the back glass of your pickup for the whole world to see and no one had a problem with it.....but i guess since the world is so much safer now that was a good change.....it's hard to type sarcasm.

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I to for the most part find that the officers that I meet are very supportive about my carrying and my Pf9 and CZ82 has started several conversations that lead to us both driving away happy.One officer even said " Ahh just don't reach for it". Here in MO several of our police organizations were strong supports of our CCW law. but we have to look at traffic stops the same way they do, as an unknown risk and like the LEO we must stick to the play book truly start to finish regardless of have we THINK that things are going!

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Thanks for the advice guys. I'm going to have to start carrying a copy of my reciept of purchase for my gun. I've already heard of cops confiscating weapons that dissappear a short while later.

 

I know that you have a right to request a property receipt, but if I can avoid losing the gun altogether that would be much better.

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Not just officers - coming back from the range with friends the 3 of us saw a bicyclist on the side of the road with a flat so we stopped to help. Tire was beyond repair so we just loaded it in the back of the Avalanche and told him to 'hop in' as we started rearranging long guns and short guns.

Poor guy nearly FREAKED! He was a Canadian, had never even been around guns, and saw what looked like the entire arms supply for the RCMP in the back seat. Then my friend asking him if he had time for us to stop at a bank nearly sent him into apoplexy! We were going to get food on the way home and wanted cash but he thought 'BANK ROBBERS'! It wasn't until we let him out that we realized what must have been going through his mind; poor guy probably thought he'd just run into the latest version of the 'Barrow Gang'. Funny as anything but probably didn't help with the anti-gun mindset. Oh, well.

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Not just officers - coming back from the range with friends the 3 of us saw a bicyclist on the side of the road with a flat so we stopped to help. Tire was beyond repair so we just loaded it in the back of the Avalanche and told him to 'hop in' as we started rearranging long guns and short guns.

Poor guy nearly FREAKED! He was a Canadian, had never even been around guns, and saw what looked like the entire arms supply for the RCMP in the back seat. Then my friend asking him if he had time for us to stop at a bank nearly sent him into apoplexy! We were going to get food on the way home and wanted cash but he thought 'BANK ROBBERS'! It wasn't until we let him out that we realized what must have been going through his mind; poor guy probably thought he'd just run into the latest version of the 'Barrow Gang'. Funny as anything but probably didn't help with the anti-gun mindset. Oh, well.

 

I can just hear him telling this story to his friends!

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Is the proof of purchase something that varies by state? I'm a few months out from taking the CPL course here in MI, but I'd never heard that before. When I did some initial research, one of the things I remember reading was that it was legal for a CPL licensed citizen to conceal carry a legally registered handgun - even if that handgun was regestered to someone else. Obviously they're going to check with that other person to make sure you're carrying their gun legally. :o

 

UPDATE: Found what I was referring to after checking around the MSP CPL FAQ's. Its the very last one on the page:

 

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,4643,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10953--,00.html

Edited by murjd17

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If your state has a registration law (mine doesn't) then I would definitely look in to the issues of carrying a gun that belongs to someone else at least get a signed if not notorized letter saying that you can possess their weapon and that they legally own it and that you have no legal responsibility before the date you took possession. We do that here for person to person sales as they aure not governed beyond not being able to knowingly sell to felons, wife beaters, or those who habitially use drugs. I have found the NRA/ILA site helpful on state to state laws on CCW.

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I don't carry a bill of sale with me. In fact, I don't know where it is. Why would it be so hard for the police to run the serial number? Sounds to me like they want an excuse to "steal" your gun

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Having been born and raised in Northern California, amd spent 30 years in southern California including a long tenure in law enforcement, there are certain agencies that reward officers for "popping a gun hook", over akmost everything else. In

Los Angeles County, few municipalities are "friendly towarss gun owners and LASO and Sheriff Baca are so politically driven

that gun hooks are very commonplace. However, it has been my experience that individual deputies in LASD are rather supportive of the Second Amendment and private firearms ownership, as are many in Orange County. However the current

sheriff in OC would gladly hook her own mother if it got her more votes. The more rural northern and central California counties are FAR more tolerant and supportive of carrying concealed in their counties, to the chagrin of the leftist counties.

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Last year I had a bad day, and was shouting at the tv. One of my neighbors knowing that I'm a vet called the cops as said I was gonna hurt myself. By the time the cops got to my place I had calmed myself down. I opened the door to 6 cops at my door. They saw I wasnt a threat and all but 2 left, the female cop making a joke about the cat toy on the way out, its shaped like a stick of dynamite. They took my guns, and the ammo they saw, missed 300 rounds easy. Wrote out a property receit etc, and then took me to the hospital for "evaluation". Cop made a comment to the "Dr." that i was the calmest person he'd ever brought in there. Well the "Dr." just happend to have been married to a guy in 222 at ft drum, next unit over from 187 my old unit. she said that 187 guys were nutts and proceeded to try and forcibly commit me. I voluntarily went to the va hospital to get away from her and was out the next day. but it took over a month to get my guns back, had to go before a judge. thankfully the DA was a vet and made it easy for me to get them back....... the police on the other hand, dragged their feet for 2 weeks after I got the decision in the mail before I got my guns back. had to go back to get the ammo they found the next day lol. pain in the ass, considering any person that truly wants to kill themselves can find a myriad of ways to do it without a gun. they didnt like it when I said that either lol

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I don't carry a bill of sale with me. In fact, I don't know where it is. Why would it be so hard for the police to run the serial number? Sounds to me like they want an excuse to "steal" your gun

 

mike I checked the NRA ILA site

 

Kentucky

 

Updated as of Tuesday, January 17, 2012.

 

STATE CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISION

 

“All men are by nature, free and equal, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned: ... 7) the right to bear arms in defense of themselves and of the state, subject to the power of the general assembly to enact laws to prevent persons from carrying concealed weapons.”

Article 1, Section 1, Paragraph 7.

Important/Relevant Gun Laws

RIFLES AND SHOTGUNS HANDGUNS

Permit to Purchase No No

Registration of Firearms No No

Licensing of Owners No No

Permit to Carry No Yes

 

It would seem that KY DOESN'T have registration on firearms so the only way that they would be able to check your ownership would be at the federal level thru your FFLs paperwork assuming that you were the one who did the FFL purchase and it was not a person to person ,if it is a person to person you will really need to have paperwork showing the purchase and the date that you took possession of the weapon or else you may have the gun confiscated as stolen, or worse be implicated in a crime from 20 years ago. We have to be, as responsible gun owners who are as I have been told forcing our Rights on the rest of the world, to do everything we can to not be seen as an example of anything less. If you bought your weapon from an FFL they should be able to get you a copy easily enough and if that is a problem get a better FFL.

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Thanks for the research DonDon! I had assumed that it would be the feds that would have to run the serial number. I guess I should try to find or get a reprint from the shop I bought it at...may eliminate future hassles. Thanks again

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You can't register a gun in Texas, even if you wanted to do so! Nowhere do I know of is it illegal to own something without a bill of sale! I don't always have a bill of sale for the gas in my gas tank or the watch I'm wearing or my glasses or .......

 

It is annoying beyond all belief that this crap goes on but it does. The big problem is that a lot of folks know that if you report "fear they will injure themselves or someone else" you've locked them up for from 24 to 72 hours observation, depending on state law. The dangerous point is what happens to your guns in the mean time, your CHL, and your ability to buy in the future.

 

I am very careful not to give probable cause for this kind of crap. That and my attorneys are my shield (such as it is). Glad you got everything straighten out Doc.

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