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TheDefaultHuman

From Hunting to Eating, are you forgetting anything?

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Bowtech, Good reply. I wish you the best, and agree that sportsmen established the growth of game populations. Besides the conservation efforts; the agri business farms have enabled game to flourish by making food more consistent. Every locale will be different and people will react in different ways. Now people do not walk in so deep, even the woodsman, as like you said, alot of people quit hunting so no need unless looking for trophies or solitude. After an event, I see people being pushed farther into wilderness because the game will be pushed further from amatuers hunting and spooking game.

For some historical context, read about Lewis and Clark; they almost starved in the mountains because of very limited game. Game animals are smart and they headed to harsher ebvirons after the west was tamed and the masses figured it was safe to go to the plains.

 

At least you have a plan bowtech and practice the skills.

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Bowtech, Good reply. I wish you the best, and agree that sportsmen established the growth of game populations. Besides the conservation efforts; the agri business farms have enabled game to flourish by making food more consistent. Every locale will be different and people will react in different ways. Now people do not walk in so deep, even the woodsman, as like you said, alot of people quit hunting so no need unless looking for trophies or solitude. After an event, I see people being pushed farther into wilderness because the game will be pushed further from amatuers hunting and spooking game.

For some historical context, read about Lewis and Clark; they almost starved in the mountains because of very limited game. Game animals are smart and they headed to harsher ebvirons after the west was tamed and the masses figured it was safe to go to the plains.

 

At least you have a plan bowtech and practice the skills.

 

Your good. Perhaps real good. If your in Montana on North Georgia where the rest of my family is, get in contact with me, maybe we can work out a seperate plan.

 

Lewis and Clark, are major influences of both my Parents and Myself. I have read alot if not all I can find on their awesome trips, and while they did have alot of people with them, they did not have access to the firearms we have today, nor did they have the population we have today (everything besides Buffalo, please let me know if im wrong). I feel like if they took their trips today, they would be a ton more successful, esp if they did it legally, they'd have the advantage of applying for tags for everyone they brought, which I believe was over 200 in and out. Food for thought, and thanks for the reply!

 

I too agree people will be going deeper. But when I say deep, I'm talking spot deep, where if I didn't have medivac insurance, I'm not sure I would ever make it out with a life-threatening injury, however I know the area very well, and as I say in another post, if I get to my SHTF real bad location, I pretty sure I wouldn't encounter humans unless I wanted to, but there are others more hardcore than me, who knows, God's will.

 

Maybe im too confident, but I know for a fact that survival is about 75% mental, everybody says 90% but thats bs, 10% of skill aint getting you thru the first 5 days of winter in Montana. I've had bad storms come on us, and been in some situations where I literally thought it was over, but always made it work. You give up when your stiff.

 

Take care

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Confidence helps and is necessary, as long as it doesn't lead to arrogance.... but you seem grounded, so no worries.

I'd have to double check, but I think Lewis and Clark's primary party was between 20-40... altho some Natives tagged along at times. If get a chance, find some old journals of mountain men and the longhunters.... or even the fur company ledgers, as this will tell you the numbers of animals turned in per year and can get some fairly accurate estimates of game populations. Like the reason a dollar is referred to as a "buck" is because 1 deer hide was a dollar to Daniel Boone and Simon Kenton (among others). Like the woodland buffalo being completely exterminated (or close enough) by the Revolutionary War.

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Speaking of Lewis and Clark, I found it interesting that one of their main rifles was a .46 cal. 20 shot repeating air rifle by Girandoni.

Yes and from what I've read, it had some awesome penetration. I think it won more "hearts and minds" among the Natives than anything else.

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at least they understood that there were no convenience stores along the way.

and A nitrate was not going to squirt out their arse

 

bowtechhunter

 

you may can skin an elk and carry a hundred pounds but that's my point.

 

http://www.skinnymoose.com/racktracker/2008/09/04/how-much-meat-will-i-get-from-my-elk/

 

so if everyone kills a large animal the waste and loss of animals from people gut shooting some of them

 

with 9MM and 40 S&W your looking at it from the point of an experienced hunter not figuring in the

 

dumbass factor as there will be millions of them wandering the woods trying to avoid the diseased populations in the cities.

 

It takes a squad of men to haul off a bull elk you still have to carry your gear and the hundred

 

pounds we had 2 pack mules and with all the gear you ain't going to pack 100 + pounds quick enough for it not to rot.

 

your going to need to smoke or salt pack now you got the smell of food on you in bear country

 

that sounds like a plan if you think smoke wont bring lookie loos well you my be great white hunter now

 

but when competition gets kicked in and no one needs a licenses and there is no season things will look a

 

bit different, that will also factor into depleting numbers of animals as hunting pregnant animals will diminish

 

herds even farther, your looking at it like things will be the same as now IT WON'T

 

I figure my pack goes about 55 + pounds and your going to add 100 to that and climb hills ford streams

 

I want to see that in fact how long {many years} you think you can do that?

 

one back injury and you won't be able to lift your pecker, and carrying all that will get you to that point quick.

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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Addendum to my previous post

 

a bull elk after being gutted de-boned skinned weights about 200 to 400 pounds of meat

 

{depending on cow or bull and average adult size}

 

anything less than carrying out the total is waste that takes 3 to 5 years minimum to replace

 

elk have 1 calf most times although twins are common in good years.

 

they gestate 8.5 months {had to look that up I knew it was close to human child carry but was not sure}

 

so you kill it and it takes 4 years to replace and only going to carry off 1/2 to1/4 of the kill and leave the

 

rest to rot well I can see that there will be no elk left in no time at all and most of it wasted.

 

many people hunt and elk tags are done in lotto format because there are more hunters than

 

elk tags formulated to save enough animals with a good margin for a viable mating population.

 

you need to read about the red stag of Europe after WWII if you can find the information

 

A synopsis: starving people almost eradicated all the red stag after the war a hunting ban 10+ years

 

the population exploded and the deer were starving and killing the trees because they were eating the bark

 

for lack of food also destroying crops ban lifted.

 

there is a 2 fold lesson in that bit of history many more if you dig deeper.

 

many people consider a problem from the time frame they live but HISTORY tells us this is like looking

 

through a wood fence while moving and trying to read a sign on the other side.

 

A persons perspective alters their understanding of a problem a hunter that has a good job and money

 

looks at hunting differently than a poor person with a family to feed and struggling to get by.

 

now we add starving city folk who's only knowledge of hunting is what they have seen on TV

 

people have migrated back and forth from cities as work or fears of famine have entered the stage of history

 

most people know that food does not come from cities city folk have become such a large voter block

 

as to endanger their own food supply from their own ignorance, by making decisions from a save everything

 

perspective and thinking that a vegetarian lifestyle is sustainable for ALL if everyone in the U.S.A.

 

decided to go vegan / vegetarian tomorrow there would not be enough food we would have to import and

 

that would drive food prices in 3rd world countries to levels that would starve the poor.

 

IE unintended consequences most people are idiots just face that fact it is the saddest thing since we

 

supposedly live in the greatest country in the world our educational system has failed to instill critical

 

thinking hell they can't make change so what do you expect.

 

and the worst part is 30 second commercials and 140 characters in a tweet your not going to sound deep

 

enough to break through the ignorance barrier. IMHO

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at least they understood that there were no convenience stores along the way.

and A nitrate was not going to squirt out their arse

 

bowtechhunter

 

you may can skin an elk and carry a hundred pounds but that's my point.

 

http://www.skinnymoose.com/racktracker/2008/09/04/how-much-meat-will-i-get-from-my-elk/

 

so if everyone kills a large animal the waste and loss of animals from people gut shooting some of them

 

with 9MM and 40 S&W your looking at it from the point of an experienced hunter not figuring in the

 

dumbass factor as there will be millions of them wandering the woods trying to avoid the diseased populations in the cities.

 

It takes a squad of men to haul off a bull elk you still have to carry your gear and the hundred

 

pounds we had 2 pack mules and with all the gear you ain't going to pack 100 + pounds quick enough for it not to rot.

 

your going to need to smoke or salt pack now you got the smell of food on you in bear country

 

that sounds like a plan if you think smoke wont bring lookie loos well you my be great white hunter now

 

but when competition gets kicked in and no one needs a licenses and there is no season things will look a

 

bit different, that will also factor into depleting numbers of animals as hunting pregnant animals will diminish

 

herds even farther, your looking at it like things will be the same as now IT WON'T

 

I figure my pack goes about 55 + pounds and your going to add 100 to that and climb hills ford streams

 

I want to see that in fact how long {many years} you think you can do that?

 

one back injury and you won't be able to lift your pecker, and carrying all that will get you to that point quick.

 

nice, at least I got my daily laugh. I don't know where you've hunted elk, sounds like an outfitter, but I have never used a mule or horse hunting, I guess that interesting. As far as doubling weight, I carry over 80lbs in and live off my back for 14 days at a time, while about 40lbs of gear stays at the main camp day-to-day, we often move camp. 5-10 miles with 80lbs is actually at breeze, at 2000 ft.

 

I don't know if you know montana well. If you do, you know unless I'm hunting first archery, I have nothing to worry about with meat going bad. And considering I hunt deer and hogs in ga and sc every year, I am very familiar with cooling and bagging meat, I have a decent coldwater stream that runs right thru my main BOL and infinate water in the ga and sc area. As well, at 40 degrees (early fall in montana), I can cool and bag meat in a hurry with or without water. If I was in ga or sc I would not take an animal the size of an elk, simply because of the heat, depending on how long it's been since my last food, and whatelse I'm seeing in the area. However, when it gets cold enough, I can simply dig and build a basic freezer in the ground, so I will down an elk, whether a calf or cow, 5x5 bull or spike. That will give me all the initial protein I need. In the instance I am not in the area during the cold season, say our few day summer, I'm probably going to select on smaller big game animals, deer and such. Also, I can dry all the meat no problem at one time, one fire. Otherwise I use a hobo and a tent stove, and nothing but the hobo get's used during the day and only when necessary, also I would like to light an 8x8 fire for you, I'll put aspens on it to blow WHITE smoke, and I'll bet the common man could never find the smoke unless he was within 1000yds. Soon he will hit my tripline, and then be neutralized. Any Questions? :)

 

Back to packing. I am lucky in my area, as their are alot of interconnecting ridgelines. A good bull elk may produce 300lbs of cleaned boned meat, I pack the meat in meat bags and put it in the refrigerator (creek), or if it's cold, raise the bags high in tree's since I can master about 100lbs & my hunting gear. The grade of the mountains we hunt is not excessive once you get to my elevation, so it'll take me a day to get it all back to spike camp (14-18hrs), depending on how far of course, and there I can care for it as necessary. On average I can carry around 80lbs average, unless the grade is too much then comes climbing gear. I can leverage my weight easily and triple pulley myself and the meat at a pace that should put me in the olympics. well maybe not :) but I can and will make it happen. Another reason to keep a good yardage weapon, and do alot of your camp work at night. If SHTF terrible, I bring the 300 win mag w/mcmillan a2 stock, and leo 4x12, which weighs in at a simply awesome 6.4lbs (unloaded).

 

Keep your head on a swivel and know your area if it takes 10 or 20 practice runs. IMHO.

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Confidence helps and is necessary, as long as it doesn't lead to arrogance.... but you seem grounded, so no worries.

I'd have to double check, but I think Lewis and Clark's primary party was between 20-40... altho some Natives tagged along at times. If get a chance, find some old journals of mountain men and the longhunters.... or even the fur company ledgers, as this will tell you the numbers of animals turned in per year and can get some fairly accurate estimates of game populations. Like the reason a dollar is referred to as a "buck" is because 1 deer hide was a dollar to Daniel Boone and Simon Kenton (among others). Like the woodland buffalo being completely exterminated (or close enough) by the Revolutionary War.

 

It's been a while since I read the details, but I do remember a .46, but don't remember it being a repeater. Guess I'll have to study up before I embarrass my dad and grandad! But I do recall, which I what I meant when I said in and out that they had a ton of people. I wouldn't say 20-40, but alot of things have happened since then, at least now I have an arguement I can present to my Girlfriend her not being up my as* for a few days so I can read! She won't allow it so I'll have to re-read my books in the john at the jobsite. That's some good reading, I'll be in there for a while boss, I'm not feeling well.

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It's been a while since I read the details, but I do remember a .46, but don't remember it being a repeater. Guess I'll have to study up before I embarrass my dad and grandad! But I do recall, which I what I meant when I said in and out that they had a ton of people. I wouldn't say 20-40, but alot of things have happened since then, at least now I have an arguement I can present to my Girlfriend her not being up my as* for a few days so I can read! She won't allow it so I'll have to re-read my books in the john at the jobsite. That's some good reading, I'll be in there for a while boss, I'm not feeling well.

 

There was an article on the Survivalcache.com site http://survivalcache.com/pellet-guns-not-just-for-kids-anymore/ on pellet guns. I co-wrote it with Josh and it has a decent review of pellet guns. There is a link to the Lewis and Clark pellet gun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle COOL rifle as are these http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/

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