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TheDefaultHuman

From Hunting to Eating, are you forgetting anything?

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Here's something I've been wondering about.

 

Lets say, when it comes down to it, you do have all your weapons and ammunition, string, and rat traps, nets and zip ties. What if you have all that but you just simply can't find anything at all to kill it with?

 

Yeah you have all the materials to kill, but not the materials to hunt. It's probably going to be harder then you think, even with all your materials, if there is nothing there for you to kill. Or maybe its just not near you......

 

So you are of course going to need equipment that brings you to the animal, or the animal to you.

 

So lets figure out whats worth carrying,

 

Bait

 

Some animals love certain smells, tastes, or pheromones. If you know which animals like which baits, your odds of surviving are better.

 

Meat is a basic type of bait, the default probably. But more in-depth then that that are some other baits-

 

Cheese, Peanut Butter, Milk, Honey, and many other common foods.

 

Urine and Sweat scents can serve as bait (or make you bait yourself).

 

What is your plan for bait? Do you have a super-compact container with 400 unique baits? Or are you using a jar of peanut butter and whatevers lying around? Its easier to catch a rat with peanut butter then a worm, and its easier to catch a fish with a worm then peanut butter.

 

~~~~

 

Animal Calls

 

Does anyone use animal calls? There are many factors to deciding whether to have these or not.

 

Are they worth carrying, and will they be worth carrying if you don't have the right one for the area. What if its not the right season? What if it attracts people when you use it? Maybe there super expensive, maybe there hard to get.

 

But then again, it could be free food.....

 

~~~~

 

To help your hunt you could buy,

 

Tree stands

 

Spray that blocks your odor (if your bugging out with your family, this should help)

 

Binoculars/Night Vision (Helps spot animals, and other uses)

 

Be sure to think about other hunting/baiting supplies too, the goal is to get yourself close to the animal, or the animal close to you (or your traps).

----------------

 

Carrying it back,

 

If you have a vehicle then your probably fine, unless your out of fuel or the terrain is too rough, then you need to be ready.

 

How much can you carry? You should know this when you and your buddy are cutting up a 500 pound animal to carry back on your back.

 

Meat needs to remain clean for the carry back as well, if food is 10 miles away from you and your walking that whole distance its not only going to suck, but you'll have to keep it sanitized the whole way back.

 

(How will you store the food for later eating without electricity?)

 

- - - - - - - -

 

Cooking it

 

This is the part most of you seem to have down to a science, the cooking part :D

 

Everytime I picture myself living in the foods, there's always a roasting fire and some meat hanging on a spit above it, most of you are probably thinking the same.

 

For cooking you have two basic options,

 

Start a fire (Simple, easy when you have materials)

 

Bring your fuel-powered stove/grill.

 

My choice would be the fire because I don't have a stove or fuel, but also because its easier to make, and easier to get wood rather then unique fuel. If your cooking a 50 pound meal in one night then your going to need the wood or gas to do it. Fire actually takes a lot of wood to keep burning all night.

 

-----------

 

Another thing to ponder a thought about is spices, at home I use many spices to add variety when I make my meals.

 

Not sure if anyone else is considering it, but if I had time, I would grab my entire spice cabinet and pack it in a bag. Here are the basic spices/flavorings I use and I recommend you bring (no particular order).

 

1. Salt

 

2. Black Pepper

 

3. Garlic Powder (like salt but healthier)

 

4. Onion Powder

 

5. Adobo (Goya Adobo is my single favorite seasoning, the only uncommon ingredient is Turmeric [which is great for you])

 

6. Parsley (Might just be my preference, but Parsley is great with other spices).

 

7. Celery Seed(or Salt) (its great on Tuna, and I find it adds a unique taste to certain things)

 

8. Cinnamon

 

9. Nutmeg

 

10. Paprika

 

11. A1 Steak Sauce (Probably too big for the Bug out Bag, but absolutely delicious)

 

What spices do you use when you cook? I usually dont try out recipes with meat, its all just whatever I add and how much.

 

My uncle taught me a recipe once to clear our your sinuses when your sick, and make you feel a hell of alot better. Its any kind of hot soup mixed with a whole bunch of spices. It worked.

 

----------------

 

Anyways, the main point of this was to discuss the process of hunting, and too see if any of you preppers use professional hunting equipment. Because surviving and hunting are different things, although similar.

 

Your thoughts?

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Some things that I feel are particularly useful for processing and transporting game and are easily packable.

 

A USGI poncho, I've actually stored a carcass in one overnight by rolling it up like a rug, and folding and tying the ends, the size of your game will of course limit how useful it is in that regard.

 

Some 1" tubular nylon webbing, great for a lot of things, but for large game it makes good drag straps, or in the case of one deer a furry backpack (yeah, it's probably what you're thinking).

 

A folding saw, can make processing a lot faster to have a saw on hand if you're racing the clock. I normally don't carry one anymore, but it would be invaluable if I can't pack the carcass back, toss it in the truck and take it to the butcher shop or my kitchen.

 

The only calls I normally use are predator calls for luring cyotes in, but a lot of prey calls for elk and the like are seasonal if I recall correctly, as are a lot of scents, so unless its the season for it, it may not work very well. Although, luring predators in could be pretty handy, most of them are edible as far as I know, not that I've knowingly eaten them (Though what goes in the cookpot at some of my hillbilly relatives houses is anyone's guess).

 

Your best bet for finding the critters is learning their habits and daily/seasonal movement patterns. Like when do deer typically go to find water/food during different seasons. Or what hours are rabbits most active. That sort of thing.

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Survival hunting and fishing needs should be different depending on your situation. If you are either mobile or only in a short term hidey hole your needs are totally different from those if you are in a more stable or permanent location. Also your location and the time of the year make a huge difference.

 

If you are on the move in the sense of being someplace that you will probably leave in a week or less then your needs are more hand to mouth. A big ole critter sounds fun but the fact is you can’t eat it in a week and during the warmer months (January through December in Southeast Texas) It will rot before you can eat it for sure if you don’t cure it. Smoking a lot of meat isn’t a very good idea when you are trying to go unnoticed.

 

If you are someplace that you plan on staying for a while you can go for bigger hauls and think in terms of preserving the meat or fish. Smoking will stretch the length of time that it can be eaten but in most of the deep South you are still looking at a pretty short term shelf life. There is NO week in the entire year here that temperatures in the 80s are out of the question. I’ve seen low 90s in the first week of the year. Those of you in the North have a built in deepfreeze for part of the year but here you have to think in terms of a more regular replenishment of your larder.

 

We don’t have to worry much about freezing to death here but that like most things is a double edged sword. Hell, leather boots will rot right off your feet in the spring when it can rain every day for three weeks running! Your clothes will mildew and just staying dry can be a real challenge when you have to go out or starve.

 

If I can stay where I am then a lot of this will be mostly a moot point. I have the stuff to can and store, smoke and dry or salt the meat. Unfortunately most of this stuff isn’t bug out friendly. An 8 quart pressure cooker is HEAVY as is the meat grinder and the sausage stuffer etc.

 

Think small most of the time unless you are bugging IN. We (My family) are talking pot belly pigs, chickens and goats along with about 4 separate gardens but all of that might have to be left behind.

 

Snare on game trails and then use what you don’t eat to bait for better later. Fish and then use the leftovers to chum. I plan on gator on a pretty regular basis myself. We have Hogs, Gators and Catfish running out of our ears and after the people thin out it will be even easier to gather them. In general if you live in the rural south you will struggle more with preserving meat than getting it. Where I live, in the early spring you wouldn’t even have to work hard to catch a hundred white bass a day when they run up into the backs of the small streams.

 

Any time you are reading survival advice you need to make sure that it is appropriate for your local. They tell me that in the north cotton clothes like jeans are bad. Down here you want something that will wick the wet and then help you be cool. I’ve never even seen a pair of wool pants. What is good for my area might not work at all elsewhere. Different skill sets, different resources, different climate and different concerns make it so that survival is more art than a science.

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That is a very good point Dan, out in Nebraska I have a slightly different set of rule to play by than you have down in Texas. You have to know your area, how to get by in it, and what sort of critters you share it with. With the temperatures here fall winter and spring you can store game quite a while longer giving you more time to preserve or eat it. Because of that though you can very easily die from exposure to the cold here in the cool seasons.

 

We don't have as much in the way of fish-able water, but we have varmints and deer in excess.

 

You made the point in another thread before and in this one as well that food gathering for survival is a completely different game than sport fishing/hunting. If you have to run bison off a cliff to eat then that's what you have to do.

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Guest kevin

big game is a blessing...but, if everyone with deer rifle/bow is hammering them to survive the supply of big game wont last long if it's a slow decline of human population( see deer number decline in the great depression)... the small fast breeders(rodents,insects,ect) will be more prone to stay high...i wonder if small kills wouldn't be just as useful after the first year or so....maybe a butterfly net and slingshot could be better at procuring supper as a 300 win mag.

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Kevin you are right; the American population has more than tripled since the Great Depression of the 1930's. My grandpas told stories about even squirrel and rabbits being scarce due to the hunting pressure. Game numbers will be drastically reduced, as alot of people I know speak of, "if it gets bad, I'll just hunt for food". These are guys who hunt every year during "normal" times and are successful, so they figure they will just be doing it year round instead of during seasons.

I hope to supplement fresh meat with what I can procure from the wilds also, but know if I do not plan for long term food production, my menu will become very plain or non existent. Like Dan (and many others), I plan on raising livestock, a garden(s) and supplementing with wild game if a long term event takes place.

In the short term, (lost, sudden storm extends my wilderness trip, car accident, etc), where I am in the position to hunt, trap and fish without all the added pressure of "everyone" doing the same; I am confidant that I can procure food routinely.

My experiences are mostly in the Great Lakes region and Florida, so that is what I am used to. My time in the desert never turned into a "live off the land" survival situation as the logistics support never really broke while deployed (we had to make do a few times but we had food and water).

One thing I have done is get a state map (one of the fold up cheap ones) and marked all the orchards, good fishing spots, prime hunting lands, and wild food plots (large berry or cattail growths) on the map. I even mark on more localized maps where I find mushrooms when hunting and keep these with me. If I get a chance to study (hike) in my travels for work, I make notes and mark these loations on maps as well if I find anything. My only benefit is prepping falls into my interests, so for me, I do not have to make any additional time other than making more extensive notes.

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Default, bait can be made and there are several books on the subject for trapping or hunting. I make my own bait for the most part and mix many ingredients that are not normally used. You can also extract and keep the musk glands (tarsal or whatever name they give for the animal you harvested) and use these to add to or separate for bait. Muskrats love fruit and veggies, so apple pieces, carrots, and other crops can be used and these work well for deer, coon, etc. If you juice vegetables and fruit, you can use the juice as an additive if using liquid bait or even the shredded remnants to add to the mix for a dry/drier bait.

If you want store bought bait and cover scents, acorn and apple are commercially available, along with earth scent, pine, etc; plus all the urines and other scents used for cover or attractants for game animals. You can even "bait" bees with a corncob soaked in saltwater. They will come for the salt and if you are watching, they will lead you back to their "honey tree" from which you can gather wild honey (becareful for the stings, they aren't very civilized when it comes to sharing). Salt is probably the one failproof bait for about every animal. It is illegal to use everywhere I have ever been, so it isn't used (legally) under normal times but survival trumps all regulations (IMO) and would be used if need be.

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Guest kevin

no iodine salt....but ya SALT....animals have to have it too, if you make a salt lick they will come. iodinized salt WILL work , but i have better luck with cattle salt blocks.....about 7 bucks for a 40 pound block at the feed and seed. "deer cocaine" is a brand that when poured on the ground will make a salt lick( a lick is where the animals come to "lick" it up)......but about any salt will work.

Edited by kevin

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big game is a blessing...but, if everyone with deer rifle/bow is hammering them to survive the supply of big game wont last long if it's a slow decline of human population( see deer number decline in the great depression)... the small fast breeders(rodents,insects,ect) will be more prone to stay high...i wonder if small kills wouldn't be just as useful after the first year or so....maybe a butterfly net and slingshot could be better at procuring supper as a 300 win mag.

 

Yeah, No. The deer, and big game population has EXPLODED since the great depression, and if you are prepped on where to go (deep, good spot with lots of sign should be planned), you will not have a problem short term (a year). Beyond that, you need to think big, and get into the thick stuff. Most hunters hunt within view of their truck, I can easily pack in 10 or 20 miles.

 

So, in closing, I'd like the 300 win mag.

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Yeah, No. The deer, and big game population has EXPLODED since the great depression, and if you are prepped on where to go (deep, good spot with lots of sign should be planned), you will not have a problem short term (a year). Beyond that, you need to think big, and get into the thick stuff. Most hunters hunt within view of their truck, I can easily pack in 10 or 20 miles.

 

So, in closing, I'd like the 300 win mag.

 

A 300 Win mag is a nice rifle as long as ammo holds out, but that goes for everything in the center and rim fire arena. Deer populations were huge before the Depression but became non existant during and immediately after. Also the human population has more than exploded since the Depression. If a diasaster, man made or natural, occurs to greatly reduce the population of people (multiple large urban centers hit) then the game population will carry on for longer times but an economic collapse which forces people to hunt for food, game will get scarce fast. Not to mention the added danger of people "going to war" to defend their hunting grounds.

People who normally hunt in view of their trucks will also start going deeper into the woods to hunt, as the thought of them going hungry or their kids starving will inspire them. Also any large natural disaster in an area can also adversely effect game populations (hurricane, New Madrid fault having a repeat, Yellowstone deciding to go thermal, etc).

Also if a major collapse occurs and the normal logistics methods are shut down (trucking and trains) so supplies can't reach the huddled masses in the cities, the population will empty out into our hunting grounds and normal routines for animals will be changed. The animal populations in the mountains (Rockies) were very low in the 1800-1840s with some small game and only certain species of big game present. The vast majority was populated on the plains until the white settlers expanded our nation and the hunting pressure and loss of habitat forced them into the mountains where we pursue them now.

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All I know

 

is when the scramble of humans flowing out from cities happens you may have thought you had

the perfect bug out or homestead but don't worry they will find you.

if you can walk 5 miles and not find any trash cans etc. you may be OK for a while.

 

In Germany during WWI they almost ate all the horses in WWII

the flora and fauna declined to a point that people starved and these people were

closer to the earth than we are today and were experienced in survival they just called it living

back in the day

 

I have seen personally war ravaged areas and they look like the moon with stumps even the bugs

were not hanging around except the flies.

the amount of animals may seem substantial now but in 90 days you will be hard pressed to find

game as animals are not stupid and Illegal snares traps and other ways to harvest will be used.

so a horrific waste as in warm weather you cannot keep meat unless your bugging in and even then

most do not have the processing equipment and chemicals to totally process the animal

 

Bones can be ground with the scrap meat and sinew and other scraps, vegetable scrap and boiled

to a mush and made into animal feed in the real world nothing goes to waste.

hides are fleshed and salted or soaked in lye water depends on if you want the hair on or off

BUT this wont happen people today have not the tools the knowledge or willingness the hardest

working person today is a shadow of their grand parents there was no free time you woke up working

and went to sleep working at night many hunted and if they were successful a long cleaning and

storage session wake up and start again.

 

your either chopping wood cleaning making repairing or planting weeding hunting fishing trapping

making lye water salting brining smoking harvesting cutting hay {grass} for animal feed to use or sell

bailing now every day you have to harvest the garden and it only keeps a week at best depends on

weather if you can dry / dehydrate or can it and then your trying to store all this crap.

you had to make furniture or can tan leather collect seeds hundreds of things to sell at a

trade fair/ rendezvous harvest or fair they evolved to what they are now flea markets and auctions.

 

people today after working at an office job in a temp controlled environment and come home and fall

down like they were dead.

more than half of you are not going to make it either from lack of knowledge or stamina or mistakes

 

people used to hunt duck and geese with cannon and 4 bore deck guns to sell at market

it took less time than you think to wipe out the buffalo they numbered in the million and now???

the beaver were hunted to the verge of extinction. remember history is written by the winners

not the starving and worked to death we got unions because the wealthy were killing us literally.

ever heard of poor houses bread lines room & board

 

health care was for the wealthy not the masses church hospitals were for the poor {death houses}

even in church the front was for was for the well to do, the back was for the unwashed masses.

 

If your not prepared for 6 months + your crow bait.

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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A 300 Win mag is a nice rifle as long as ammo holds out, but that goes for everything in the center and rim fire arena. Deer populations were huge before the Depression but became non existant during and immediately after. Also the human population has more than exploded since the Depression. If a diasaster, man made or natural, occurs to greatly reduce the population of people (multiple large urban centers hit) then the game population will carry on for longer times but an economic collapse which forces people to hunt for food, game will get scarce fast. Not to mention the added danger of people "going to war" to defend their hunting grounds.

People who normally hunt in view of their trucks will also start going deeper into the woods to hunt, as the thought of them going hungry or their kids starving will inspire them. Also any large natural disaster in an area can also adversely effect game populations (hurricane, New Madrid fault having a repeat, Yellowstone deciding to go thermal, etc).

Also if a major collapse occurs and the normal logistics methods are shut down (trucking and trains) so supplies can't reach the huddled masses in the cities, the population will empty out into our hunting grounds and normal routines for animals will be changed. The animal populations in the mountains (Rockies) were very low in the 1800-1840s with some small game and only certain species of big game present. The vast majority was populated on the plains until the white settlers expanded our nation and the hunting pressure and loss of habitat forced them into the mountains where we pursue them now.

 

After 33 years hunting 10 states, every animal, every season, every year, I hate to disagree but you are wrong. The deer and elk herds have EXPLODED compared to the depression. Check any QDMA or Deer n Deer Hunting websites, you will find the materials to prove this. In the areas I hunt its 3-5 deer per sq mile, and 6 elk per sq mile. When I'm talking about going deep, I mean literally 20 miles in.

 

But your issue is true. If things go crazy people will surely hunt. But to say that we will aniliate the source, it's impossible. Their not buffalo. It would be like saying that people will catch all the fish. Not. Having good fishing skills as well will put a premium on you being able to outfish others. Same theory.

 

I have no doubt that with my evac bag and a method to get to my locations (have it), I can last just as long as I need to. Years, a Decade, etc.. no problem.

 

IMHO.

 

see 20 things post

 

Oh yeah. A .300 would be a poor survival gun. The ammo is too heavy to carry enough. I carry 1100 rounds, and multiple firearms, in addition to survival bows and arrows.

Edited by bowtechhunter

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All I know

 

is when the scramble of humans flowing out from cities happens you may have thought you had

the perfect bug out or homestead but don't worry they will find you.

if you can walk 5 miles and not find any trash cans etc. you may be OK for a while.

 

In Germany during WWI they almost ate all the horses in WWII

the flora and fauna declined to a point that people starved and these people were

closer to the earth than we are today and were experienced in survival they just called it living

back in the day

 

I have seen personally war ravaged areas and they look like the moon with stumps even the bugs

were not hanging around except the flies.

the amount of animals may seem substantial now but in 90 days you will be hard pressed to find

game as animals are not stupid and Illegal snares traps and other ways to harvest will be used.

so a horrific waste as in warm weather you cannot keep meat unless your bugging in and even then

most do not have the processing equipment and chemicals to totally process the animal

 

Bones can be ground with the scrap meat and sinew and other scraps, vegetable scrap and boiled

to a mush and made into animal feed in the real world nothing goes to waste.

hides are fleshed and salted or soaked in lye water depends on if you want the hair on or off

BUT this wont happen people today have not the tools the knowledge or willingness the hardest

working person today is a shadow of their grand parents there was no free time you woke up working

and went to sleep working at night many hunted and if they were successful a long cleaning and

storage session wake up and start again.

 

your either chopping wood cleaning making repairing or planting weeding hunting fishing trapping

making lye water salting brining smoking harvesting cutting hay {grass} for animal feed to use or sell

bailing now every day you have to harvest the garden and it only keeps a week at best depends on

weather if you can dry / dehydrate or can it and then your trying to store all this crap.

you had to make furniture or can tan leather collect seeds hundreds of things to sell at a

trade fair/ rendezvous harvest or fair they evolved to what they are now flea markets and auctions.

 

people today after working at an office job in a temp controlled environment and come home and fall

down like they were dead.

more than half of you are not going to make it either from lack of knowledge or stamina or mistakes

 

people used to hunt duck and geese with cannon and 4 bore deck guns to sell at market

it took less time than you think to wipe out the buffalo they numbered in the million and now???

the beaver were hunted to the verge of extinction. remember history is written by the winners

not the starving and worked to death we got unions because the wealthy were killing us literally.

ever heard of poor houses bread lines room & board

 

health care was for the wealthy not the masses church hospitals were for the poor {death houses}

even in church the front was for was for the well to do, the back was for the unwashed masses.

 

If your not prepared for 6 months + your crow bait.

 

I agree with most of your post. However you say Buffalo numbered a million. Not sure where that stat came from, but let me know. There are currently well over 15 million deer, and millions of elk. That only takes into consideration those 2 species out of hundreds.

 

The more you prepare, the better off you'll be.

IMHO

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Bowtech, I hunt as well. I don't think the animals will be hunted to extinction but they will be decimated to an extreme population. My reasoning is 2 fold; 1) added hunting from people who normally do not hunt and 2) reduced food for the animals (except ones who eat carion) once farms go domicile from lack of fuel to operate the equipment. I know some crops will still be raised but on a smaller scale, thus reducing available food that most are used to getting now (especially here in the corn belt).

I am curious as to your theory on deer and elk not being buffalo on the "over hunted" (population annihilated by hunting) issue.

I too think the 300 would be a poor "survival" arm not only for weight of ammo but not good for small game unless you want to "bark" squirrels...lol.

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Big bore guns are mostly overkill. I had an Uncle that killed more deer than anyone I ever heard of and all he ever used was a 22lr or later a 22 magnum. He was a farmer and killed deer by the dozens every year to keep the populations under control. He did it legally by the way and the venison went to the orphans home in Waco Texas. He would kill them, field dress them and hang'em then call the game warden to come get them. He always did head shots and never had a problem killing them usually 4 to 6 a night in the spring and early summer. At the same time he also hunted wolves for bounty with the same and made a hundred or so a month trading their ears for the bounty.

 

Once again this is all a locality issue. In East Texas the deer are white tails that weigh about 150. I seldom had to shoot more than 75 yards and only on pipeline right of ways and such is it even possible to see two or three hundred yards. For most people a 30-30 is a high powered rifle. LOL. I generally hunted with a Savage 99F in 300 Savage. It's about the same as a 308 Winchester. I'm the third generation to hunt with it and own it. I did finally put a 4X40mm scope on it to help my old tired eyes. About the only thing around here that a 300 magnum might be nice for is some of these damn big Russian crossbred hogs are HUGE and mean as hell. I've killed several big hogs though with my 357 magnum.

 

I guess you might need a 300 mag for elk out at 300 yards or maybe moose or bear but white tails are easy. Here we get to kill 3 does and 2 bucks a year and the does are like hunting cattle... a no brainer. We are infested with deer, hogs are running everywhere and in a bind there are always Hoover Hogs! If I want to feed the family I will probably be more likely to use a small bore rimfire or 357 magnum than a bigger rifle. Reloading for the 357 is easy and I have several cases of bullets, primers and powder. In a bind I'll cast bullets out of wheel weights and pull bullets from what ever I have to reload them.

 

You can't really compare the depression years with now. in the 20s most people lived in rural surroundings. They knew how to garden and hunt and they weren't packed tightly together. There will be no hope for anyone trapped in someplace like NYC or LA. 20 million people will eat EVERYTHING that is eatable in about two weeks and then turn on each-other. The fires and looting will toll the end of our great experiment in equality and in the end as always the fittest will survive while the unfit will die.

 

People are different than they were back then. They were tough old birds. They had struggled off and on their entire lives with war, disease and poverty and the depression was just one more hurtle that they took in stride. When the Japs hit Pearl Harbor and killed less than 2000 military people they declared war of everyone in sight and kicked ass. When the Islamic terrorists killed over twice that many innocent civilians we took a decade to finally kill the ass that did it. We should have killed everyone that thought it was a good thing. The Japs hit Pearl harbor but we declared war of Germany, Italy, Japan, India, and a half dozen other countries. Yes, India WAS an Axis power too. We are week willed now and that weakness will mean that a lot will just sit down and die and a lot will go crazy and violent...hell a lot are that way already. Can you imagine the junkie gangs when their dope dries up?

 

Kill what you need and can deal with before it spoils. Keep your head down and after a year things will get better. Honor will have meaning again and people will learn to work hard when they are paid to work and keep their word or starve to death.

Edited by Danm

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I agree Dan on the 22lr. I think a 22lr rifle and a larger caliber handgun are a great combo for survival. I also like my 45 Colt rifle and pistol for anything in the Midwest where I am (big game wise). I know alot of deer get taken with a 22lr by poachers in my locale.

I hope the population who pursue the hunting, trapping and fishing activities would be forward thinking enough to only take what they need but the "golden horde" from the cities are what I see as being the most dangerous to game populations. Poor shot placement will ruin alot of animals thru spoilage after they are not recovered and the sheer numbers of rounds flying will be scary. I live and hunt not far from chicago and I think Iraq was safer than it is in the deer woods on opening weekend...lol.

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bowtechhunter

 

I read a book

 

Damn and Regulator5

agreed I have taken many deer with 22 I was garden guard, I did not even have to leave my room.

as anyone who hunts knows deer have a tendency to get scarce during hunting season.

 

I look at waste if a extended power outrage here we will have to dress and brine it in a barrel,

probably boned out as this would allow more meat in less space / water /salt then smoke or

slice and dry it or both.

 

The only problem most have no clue what I am talking about and a lot will just go to waste.

I have seen the hams taken and the rest left during season waste has always been a problem.

It will just get worse.

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Bowtech, I hunt as well. I don't think the animals will be hunted to extinction but they will be decimated to an extreme population. My reasoning is 2 fold; 1) added hunting from people who normally do not hunt and 2) reduced food for the animals (except ones who eat carion) once farms go domicile from lack of fuel to operate the equipment. I know some crops will still be raised but on a smaller scale, thus reducing available food that most are used to getting now (especially here in the corn belt).

I am curious as to your theory on deer and elk not being buffalo on the "over hunted" (population annihilated by hunting) issue.

I too think the 300 would be a poor "survival" arm not only for weight of ammo but not good for small game unless you want to "bark" squirrels...lol.

 

 

Well, I can for sure understand people not wanting to tote a 300 & ammo, But if you are in a woodland, incredibly remote walk-in only area's like I am, I can not only guarantee that if I get to my location and have all my gear (BOB & Caches), I'm good for years. A decision would have to be made if I carry my 300 sniper, depending of course on the situation, and it is not a gun I would take if I was going on what I consider a short trip (a year or less). If the situation warranted a 1500 yard rifle to keep maruaders from getting up my mountain, I'd smoke em before they ever got near me (I set trip lines 400sq yards around me). My most likely gun to tote if I decided I need more than I have, and have access to my truck, would prob be a 12ga loaded and about 100rds of #4 buck.

 

Check out my other posts and you will see the contents of all my gear. I don't recommend, nor would I bring my 300 unless I deemed it necessary, and I took an 800lb cow elk last year in my unit at 675yds with it. It's sick, and actually light. It's my big game rifle, although it may be overkill for most people, It's my deer rifle now as well. I made a 250+ yd shot (had to walk it off) on a nice 9pt last year, and it drops deer like childs play. However, if you are not in the woods often, are so prepared that your sitting on the couch like a fatboy, I would recommend you take alot less of a weapon with alot more ammo. In my youth, I may or may not have dropped deer with neck and head shots with a .22lr. But for me, 36 and in pretty exceptional shape, I hike pretty an average of around 10 miles a day when hunting, The extra 7lbs and 5lbs to make 60rds of match, I can't even tell the difference. I also keep 300 ammo in my caches, but to say I'm it's my "bug-out" rifle would be premature. But I can tell you, take everything you poss can and stay under 60lbs, if it gets to heavy, you can use or dump some of your equip in a cache and hike all the necessaties in.

 

As far as the population of deer, elk, bear, wolf, yote, every feathered critter, snakes, fish, and every other furry critter on the planet, their all thriving. Hunters, yes hunters, implemented the game bags limits, permits, etc. since the late 1800's. Never in the history of the United States (argue me if I'm wrong), has their been a better population of big game animals, not to mention small game. Also, their are many, many people who plain quit hunting, or never hunted to begin with. The Blair Witch Project helped me bigtime, you'd be surprised how many people will never go hunting with me again (1 500lb black bear comes to the tent, and now people don't wanna go, pusses :)). ps I shottem with the .44 mag, twice, and then cleared it with dnr since I didn't have a bear tag, and I'd rather have to explain it to the game warden than them figure it out from dental records.

 

Bottom line is take everything your happy but can carry after your essentials. It's nothing to shed gear, or trade gear which may or will be necessary. I am quite confident I can go into the woods with nothing more than a shotgun and a frying pan and come out fat. It takes alot of practice to stay in the best shooting shape, as well as physical shape. Making 1500 yd shots are not my mainstay, just practice. But I can hold a 4" group out to 1500 where it swells to just under 5", with my dope card engraved in the stock. I shoot about 5k rounds a year in practice, and generally practice twice a week with a similar bow to my survival lonbow, where I can put arrows touching out to 40. Practice, Practice, Practice. And the more you know (learn) the less you need. However, like I said, bring what you can, it will sure work out for you in the long run.

 

Again, IMHO. I've been hunting my unit every year for 20 years. I'm generally lucky enough to land and elk or deer tag (4 out of 20 years I didnt), and on the times I don't, I take buddies who do get permits. In that time, I have only seen 8 other human beings, and NONE in the last 3 years. I'm telling you, if you don't know my area, you will never find me. And if you do know my area, I prob already know you :) or at least your face from the other side of the mountain in my spotting scope. If you get to me, you manned up in a huge way, and as long as were cool, we could work together and overcome it somewhat easier.

 

Thanks for all the info though, I learn new stuff every time I come to this forum, which is why I do. Have a killer time, and the old Boy Scout term simply summarizes it all, BE PREPARED. Take care.

Edited by bowtechhunter

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Big bore guns are mostly overkill. I had an Uncle that killed more deer than anyone I ever heard of and all he ever used was a 22lr or later a 22 magnum. He was a farmer and killed deer by the dozens every year to keep the populations under control. He did it legally by the way and the venison went to the orphans home in Waco Texas. He would kill them, field dress them and hang'em then call the game warden to come get them. He always did head shots and never had a problem killing them usually 4 to 6 a night in the spring and early summer. At the same time he also hunted wolves for bounty with the same and made a hundred or so a month trading their ears for the bounty.

 

Once again this is all a locality issue. In East Texas the deer are white tails that weigh about 150. I seldom had to shoot more than 75 yards and only on pipeline right of ways and such is it even possible to see two or three hundred yards. For most people a 30-30 is a high powered rifle. LOL. I generally hunted with a Savage 99F in 300 Savage. It's about the same as a 308 Winchester. I'm the third generation to hunt with it and own it. I did finally put a 4X40mm scope on it to help my old tired eyes. About the only thing around here that a 300 magnum might be nice for is some of these damn big Russian crossbred hogs are HUGE and mean as hell. I've killed several big hogs though with my 357 magnum.

 

I guess you might need a 300 mag for elk out at 300 yards or maybe moose or bear but white tails are easy. Here we get to kill 3 does and 2 bucks a year and the does are like hunting cattle... a no brainer. We are infested with deer, hogs are running everywhere and in a bind there are always Hoover Hogs! If I want to feed the family I will probably be more likely to use a small bore rimfire or 357 magnum than a bigger rifle. Reloading for the 357 is easy and I have several cases of bullets, primers and powder. In a bind I'll cast bullets out of wheel weights and pull bullets from what ever I have to reload them.

 

You can't really compare the depression years with now. in the 20s most people lived in rural surroundings. They knew how to garden and hunt and they weren't packed tightly together. There will be no hope for anyone trapped in someplace like NYC or LA. 20 million people will eat EVERYTHING that is eatable in about two weeks and then turn on each-other. The fires and looting will toll the end of our great experiment in equality and in the end as always the fittest will survive while the unfit will die.

 

People are different than they were back then. They were tough old birds. They had struggled off and on their entire lives with war, disease and poverty and the depression was just one more hurtle that they took in stride. When the Japs hit Pearl Harbor and killed less than 2000 military people they declared war of everyone in sight and kicked ass. When the Islamic terrorists killed over twice that many innocent civilians we took a decade to finally kill the ass that did it. We should have killed everyone that thought it was a good thing. The Japs hit Pearl harbor but we declared war of Germany, Italy, Japan, India, and a half dozen other countries. Yes, India WAS an Axis power too. We are week willed now and that weakness will mean that a lot will just sit down and die and a lot will go crazy and violent...hell a lot are that way already. Can you imagine the junkie gangs when their dope dries up?

 

Kill what you need and can deal with before it spoils. Keep your head down and after a year things will get better. Honor will have meaning again and people will learn to work hard when they are paid to work and keep their word or starve to death.

 

Ok, again, everybody read my other posts please! My 22lr is my standard gun. I carry around 800 rds match for. I too have dropped several deer with the .22lr maybe :), but I have over 100 deer under my belt, and over 140 big game animals total (dang right I keep track). 36 deer via longbow.

 

And again, I would never recommend a 300 for anyone as their core bug-out gun. It's way to loud, and for every 300 round, I can carry a 25rds of 22lr match, so it's obvious that I may not take that weapon, unless an economic collapse or hell on earth broke out, and I knew if would be great to take people out where there would never see or know where it came from, that point I take my sniper. At this point, and I'd say the last couple seasons with two exceptions, I love to be within 100 yards of my quarry, I can then use less of a round, that is 3x as quiet.

 

Hopefully

Edited by bowtechhunter

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bowtechhunter

 

I read a book

 

Damn and Regulator5

agreed I have taken many deer with 22 I was garden guard, I did not even have to leave my room.

as anyone who hunts knows deer have a tendency to get scarce during hunting season.

 

I look at waste if a extended power outrage here we will have to dress and brine it in a barrel,

probably boned out as this would allow more meat in less space / water /salt then smoke or

slice and dry it or both.

 

The only problem most have no clue what I am talking about and a lot will just go to waste.

I have seen the hams taken and the rest left during season waste has always been a problem.

It will just get worse.

 

Ok, as far as I know, wanton waste is illegal EVERYWHERE. However, in a tactical situation none of that matters. I can dress a bull elk in 30 minutes (I dont like Grizzlys). I can pack out around 100lbs at a time, which makes it so that I am less than worried, since I've already had to do it, by myself, over a dozen times. I've heard of people leaving parts, mostly because of their fitness, but never the backstraps! Where are you seeing only hams removed, and why didn't you report it?

 

Thanks

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