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wilkins

Buttpack

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Hey guys! I just started getting really involved in the whole "Bug out" stuff. I have a BOB of my own, but instead of a backpack, I chose to go with a buttpack. I went with the spec-ops soldiers optimized buttpack. I put an organize inside to hold together all the stuff I won't need immediately. The side pockets are great for immediate, usable stuff such as my esbit stove, snack food, firestarter, or light sticks.I would like to see what you guys think of this idea.

 

Thanks for feedback!

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I've been thinking of adding a Buttpack to my BOB as well in addition to my backpack. I have webbing (belt + Y harness) that I use to supplement my backpack, but I hang my sleeping bag from the bottom of my backpackwhich is the same area a buttpack would occupy. I'm pretty sure I can have both at the same time, just haven't tried yet.

 

I suppose, in answer to your question, I would say that buttpacks are a great supplement to a backpack (and can even be used by themselves for a 72 hours kit if you shop smart and know your stuff) but I see it as something that helps augment the rest of your BOB rather than replace it.

 

However, that's just my opinion and how I see things, so take it with a grain of salt and realize that everyone's survival set-up is different and what works for one person may not work for another.

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I love ALICE set ups as opposed to "tactical" vests and "3 day assault packs." I don't know why anybody would want to pay so much for a frame-less pack and a bunch of nylon to lift their core body temperature in the desert, but I suppose they must have their "tacti-cool" fashion trends. I use a condor LRRP buttpack as my 24 kit should I be separated from my ALICE Large Rucksack. The idea being that my rifle ammunition, Blow Out Kit, Compass, Kabar, canteens, and buttpack are stored on my belt and my suspenders hold it all up. I have other survival gear and sustenance supplies in my buttpack, but I don't touch it unless I'm away from my ruck. I drop my rucksack If I need to move fast, or if I'm going to be in a fighting situation.

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JD1999 I like the concept of the buttpack but can never seem to get enough into them. I have now settled on a couple of different Maxexpedition "sling" packs, a larger one, and a smaller version. This stuff is high quality. I may seem a bit stiff at first because of the material used, but it breaks in with use. I also like the Molle capability to add on extra zippered bags, cases, and stuff.

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I like the feedback so far, thanks! I've heard a lot of people using buttpacks with their backpacks, I just prefer the buttpack because I feel I can move around faster without having a heavy pack on me, although I do plan to keep all my bugout stuff in a backpack. I forgot to mention that I'm using a webbelt, threaded through some carabiner (180mm, made of steel) along with a suspender system. This way if I need to, i can carry an empty pack to carry stuff I find, or it makes slinging a rifle on your back easier.

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I have my BOB in a 3-Day Assault pack (not for tacticool reasons) It was much cheaper than the Alice pack (that I have heard is really uncomfortable after a few hours). It contains all of my food, shelter, and tools. I have the buttpack module that quick attaches/detaches with all of my ammo/firearms related gear. A bug out situation may not accomodate the need for firearms. In many cases, firearms will be confiscated at bug out routes (like Katrina). If possible, I would rather take them with me to the BOL, but I have the option to quick detach and leave them if the situation is inappropriate for firearms. No need to bring firearms to the local civic center for a few days in a slight disaster.

 

Same situation for the wife. She has a Jansport pack, and a old school fanny pack for her ammo...

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I feel I came across slightly aggressive with my last comment, and I'd like to apologize if I was rude. For me, a BOB has to carry a lot of water due to my local climate, therefore I require the strong frame offered by the ALICE system; I use a military laundry bag folded in half to reinforce the kidney belt, and another bag cut in halves to reinforce the shoulder straps. My plans are to bug in, but in order to bug out I would need to move 85 miles to my BOL, through isolated back-roads that could require me to move some of the distance on foot. I can carry 5 days of water and equipment without re-supply. My rucksack weighs 65+lbs in summer. In a fighting situation, I would need to ditch it immediately for obvious reasons, therefore the idea is that my butt-pack is a safety measure if I cannot return to my Ruck. My pistol belt and butt-pack have a gallon of water, which is obviously life in 100 degree weather. The reason I'm also not a fan of tactical vests, is bc it's much easier to stay cool wearing a T shirt and only having suspenders over my body.

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Hey JohnDoe, you weren't aggressive at all. Everyone has a right to their preference of BOB pack. I respect yours and see how having a backpack would work. I also like the suspenders idea, I used that in my buttpack as well so I don't have a belt eating into my stomach. I thought about using both a buttpack and backpack, but that just seems too heavy for me as I'm only about 5'5". I understand the need for more water completely, trying to figure out myself how to carry more of that life giving elixir.

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I think he was aiming the apology at me. haha. I was not offended. There IS definatly the tacti-cool clan out there. They often gear up with the coolest gear, even if it does not fit their situation or needs. The Assault pack, fit my needs and budget. I know there are better packs out there, but I have not found them yet. Or cant afford them. haha When I bought the pack, it came with a vest and a bunch of pouches as well. The vest is not heavy and is alot like a fishing vest. I keep mag pouches (6 mags), two canteens, a knife and compass on it. It too is part of the multi tier system that I can take it or leave it depending on the situation.

 

You mentioned being able to drom the pack if needed. The Assault pack has quick detach straps at each shoulder for just taht circumstance...

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i don't understand how you carry a buttpack with a backpack and vest? (hunters/fishing vest type) i lugged a Large Alice pack with frame and updated shoulder straps with the chest strap, for a 28 mile 2 night, 3 day hike and the buttpack was quickly re-attached to the backpack waist strap and worn over my front left pocket most of the way. i'd think any of the pack straps would get caught up in the pockets of the vest, especially if you had a chest strap going across and waist belt.

 

a different trip on our way to the hunting spots my pack would rub up against my rifle pretty hard, and hard to get comfortable with the waist strap pinching my pistol into my kidney in the belt holster. thinking about it, it would have been nice to have the 3 point sling on the rifle, slung on first, barrel down, then the alice pack, then a drop leg holster for the pistol for hunting trips, that way, you can jus pop the shoulder strap buttons and be ready for action. on the day trips with more states allowing CCW's in the parks, my EDC shoulder holster interferes with all my day packs. convienent to hide under my button shirt, but extremely inconvienent to draw with a pack on.

 

theres no way i could afford a whole new Tactical setup with the 3 day assault backpacks with built in camel baks (which are small compared to The Alice) that clip into today's molle battle vests. i highly doubt they come in my size anyways. i'd rather blend into the tree hugging hiker type, than battle rattle tan for a day trip.

Edited by Crazy Rebel

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http://www.opsgear.com/index/page/product/product_id/125/product_name/MOLLE+Butt++Vest+Pack

 

This is the buttpack I have switched to. It holds more than the SpecOps Brand "SOB" (I have 3 of these as well). I use the Condor MOLLE vest myself for its versatility and ability to add more pouches than I could with my pistol belt and H-harness. I wore the vest in Iraq, 140+ heat, and I agree it added to the temp but the offset of having gear easily accessible outweighed the heat. I used an H-harness and pistol belt for a long time but with the MOLLE, I have found it worth the expense. If using ALICE clips, cut pieces of para cord down and pull the guts out; use the nylon sheath to tie "safety" lines around the clips to keep them in place. ALICE clips have a tendancy to become undone in the most inopportune time.

Another system to look at is the ranger chest rig or better known as the "RACK" system. This will give you more mounting platform than the H-harness/belt combo but leaves your back open for ventilation.

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I also linked to a MOLLE vest on the "Survival on a Budget" thread. It was under $30 and came with a pistol belt. This places it at or under the price for an H-harness/belt combo if cost is a major contributor to decision. As stated previously by someone, personal preference is the biggest criteria, along with function. Both systems work well and I still keep my H-harness/belt system ready for an option. Also a vest will displace the weight over a larger area, thus reducing fatigue and adding comfort.

Edited by Regulator5

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I would go with a butt pack of some kind. Most gear you would absolutely need could be carried in one. I have a black hawk ALICE buttpack, and I love it. It has attachment points for lashing straps, allowing you to strap things such as blankets or coats to it. If you have a good LBV that can take a belt, you have the option of attaching a GI style buttpack to the belt, 550 cording it to the molle webbing on the LBV, and then supplementing it with a buttpack like the condor assault pack weaved in above it. your total carrying space would be equivalent to a small backpack, and it is attached to your gear. i have used a similar buttpack to the condor one listed earlier and had ammo, food, and other important supplies for three days in it, and it felt very comfortable (I had it up on the back, not down on the butt). With the extra room of a normal buttpack, you could carry more than enough equipment to get you by for a very long time, especially if you are sticking to space saving necessities, rather than bulky "I wants". With regards to the ALICE vs MOLLE thing, its a matter of preference. Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses. I love ALICE, she is a good girl. But I think the MOLLE, with all her new ways of doing business, is just as good at getting the job done, and in some ways, she is better. Hope this helps some.

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Regulator5,

 

I looked at those buttpacks too! I liked them and almost got one, but I just didnt like that I didn't have alot of room for odd shaped stuff, such as the organizer and mountain house meals. Still think they are a good buttpack, just not for me.

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Ok guys, so I've finally hit a snag on the buttpack thing. Tried it on with the web belt and some old suspenders I had, and the pack is too heavy, so it leans away from my body too much, the carabiners work great though. So, my next plan is to try a vest to hold some of the stuff I'd need anyway on my person, and make the buttpack lighter. Hope it works, but if you guys have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

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I would say try a smaller pack. Sounds counter intuitive in some respects, but it may ride higher, allowing the buttpack to rest comfy. If you are worried about chaffing from ALICE clips, try replacing them with 550 cord. That is how I do it, and I have found that is is about ten times more solid if you get it tight. At one point I had a whole ALICE setup held together with nothing but 550 cord. I looped it through the grommet holes in the belt, and it held like glue. just tie keepers in the ends, and it should work.

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That could be Regulator5, maybe his whole kit is too high to begin with. normally when i would get a question like this posed, I would tell the person to get their gear, and bring it to me. then have em try it on, and work through it that away. you said that you use carbines to attach the buttpack? I was wondering how that is supposed to work. Seems like a big hunk of metal to have sitting in your back (if my minds eye is seeing this right) could you post some pics so i could see. Maybe then I could offer some better help. i may have to attach some pics of my old setup, so you can see what I did. It took me an hour to disassemble it, but i would be willing to (sigh) put it back together to show you (have I mentioned that I REALLY love messing with gear?)

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I'll work on getting some pictures of the pack with carabiners, it is a little hard to do right now because I don't have the right suspenders right now, working on getting some soon. The carabiners work great though since they hold the pack down a little low, but not away from body, I plan to get a different belt to attach them to. I do plan to have 2 mag pouches for pistol mags on my belt, and leave ar-15 mags. on my left thigh.

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Wilkins, I carried my compass and a Ka-bar on my left shoulder suspender, 1 qt canteen on each hip, mag pouches on front (1 on each side of buckle) and first aid kit on left side between canteen and mag pouch.

Are you using Y or H style suspenders? Also, if using a pistol belt, might try and use the pistol belt pad; this will allow you to keep belt tighter without it digging in as much.

I went to the vest for a few reasons; multiple anchor points allow me to set gear anywhere, even my back for non essential gear or gear that my "battle buddy" could grab it (smoke, CS and flashbangs as I usually was in front). I use mag pouches to carry all sorts of things besides mags; gloves, food, bandanas, maps, paracord, chew, smokes, etc.

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I will get the kit set back up, and put some pics on. Should be able to get it done tonight. I switched to a carrier for a few reasons. Mostly because I wanted something that I could upgrade relatively easily, and that was a touch more versatile. Not to say the ALICE gear isn't, it was my go to for about two years, but the rig I have now is much better in a few regards. I have even tried attaching my buttpack to the carrier, and it worked... sort of. The fact that it doesn't bounce nearly as much is one big reason. Then there is the fact that should I get the nerve, I can put soft armor in it, as well as plates. It distributes the load better, and has MOLLE webbing over the majority of it. The way the mags are set up now, I can have other pouches on top of them, hiding them, and allowing the space to be used more effectively. I too did the knife on the shoulder for a while, and it worked pretty good. But I found that the knife I had (Kabar Tanto) was too big and interfered with the pack. One downside, is that it uses velcro. Not one of my favorite fasteners, but something I have chosen to live with.

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Sorry this took so long, but here is what I did to mine to attach my buttpack. First, i cut off those pesky metal clips off the Y-harness, and threaded 550 cord through in their place. This is my medium for attaching the harness to the pouches and the belt itself. I cut the clips off this y-harness almost eight years ago, and it is still in very good condition. Use a bolt cutter to remove those little chaffing metal clips of doom. The next bit I figured you already did, and that involved finding pouch placement. I set this one up in about fifteen minutes (I have done this as a hobby and a profession for almost half my life ;)) I loop the 550 cord through the small grommets at the top of the pouches, and then tie a know in it to act as a stop. This is not to support the weight, but merely to keep the pouch facing the right direction. I then loop the 550 cord through the grommets on the belt itself, and it is these points that act as the load bearing mechanism. Once this is complete, I finish putting the belt on, and move to the other side and repeat. After I have finished both sides, I then move to the buttpack. This is a little different but you can see how I did it. I put the buttpack on, to see placement, and then tied a square knot from the 550 chord through the loop end of the harness, and then through the d-ring on the buttpack. then the remainder goes through the grommets on the belt, just like the other pouches. the major difference here, is that the 550 chord through the d rings is for load bearing, and the chord through the grommets is for reinforcement. i didn't do this with this one, as I will be taking it apart, but i generally reinforce all of my attachment points with zip ties, and 550 chord. Then tape all of my loose items, and the points where the 550 chord is looped through the d-rings. I hope this helps some. And again i am sorry it took so long to get it up.

 

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Hmmmm, very interesting set up of your pack. I really do like the set up.You have extra pouches that I do not. You are also using 550 cord while I'm mainly using suspenders. I'll have to take some pictures of mine as well after I get everything I need for it. I will say your pack gave me some idea to try and use more pouches possibly.

 

Thanks!

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No problem. I used standard GI issue M-16 pouches for that one, three to be sure, with the grenade holders removed. Though I have seen in a Ranger Rick some guy uses those grenade holders to hold 550, looked pretty slick. Usually I would have a SAW drum pouch in place of the holster, but I wanted to show that it could be included. SAW drum pouches for ALICE have the same little grommets that the M-16 mag pouches have, so you could just replace the Rifle pouches with the SAW ones. But, yeah, it works pretty good. One thing I did not do (due to time and the fact that this is not my go to kit anymore) is weave 550 cord through the ALICE retainers on the buttpack, and the other pouches instead of the ALICE clips. It takes time, and is a pain in the @$$, but it is almost impossible to break short of cutting it with a knife. I may have to do that one to show what I mean. Hmmm... I will put that up after new years, as I am swamped the next week or so (damn holidays...) ;)

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