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droptrd

Rethinking my HD 12ga loads...

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Recently ive been spending alot of time experimenting with my 12ga. Different loads and chokes. Ive destroyed many target stands lately.

 

For the longest time Ive kept my Home Defense shotgun loaded with 00 and slugs. While they are brutal at 7-10 yards (your longest HD distance on average), the penetration is huge. I think at this close range 00 and slugs could easily penatrate OSB/drywall and still maintain leathal velocity. At 7 yards, walmart 8 shot with a full choke is devastating. Yet it is pretty much done after one layer of OSB or 2 layers of drywall and fiberglass insulation. One shot to the chest at 7 yds and lights out.

 

So now all of my 00 and slugs I kept in my bedroom are now in my basement with my hunting gear. When I think about what couldve happened in the past, it puts a lump in my throat. All low brass 2.75" 8 shot for my HD shotgun from now on.

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Recently ive been spending alot of time experimenting with my 12ga. Different loads and chokes. Ive destroyed many target stands lately.

 

For the longest time Ive kept my Home Defense shotgun loaded with 00 and slugs. While they are brutal at 7-10 yards (your longest HD distance on average), the penetration is huge. I think at this close range 00 and slugs could easily penatrate OSB/drywall and still maintain leathal velocity. At 7 yards, walmart 8 shot with a full choke is devastating. Yet it is pretty much done after one layer of OSB or 2 layers of drywall and fiberglass insulation. One shot to the chest at 7 yds and lights out.

 

So now all of my 00 and slugs I kept in my bedroom are now in my basement with my hunting gear. When I think about what couldve happened in the past, it puts a lump in my throat. All low brass 2.75" 8 shot for my HD shotgun from now on.

 

I found pretty much the same thing. It just seemed to me that 7 or 8 shot at HD distance would not have time to spread and would impact in a fairly tight group without going through my walls.

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This is something I've been saying for years about 00. I know slinging a fistful of 8mm pellets at people is comforting but the spherical projectiles are super penetrators. I live in an old house with sturdy plaster walls and I know for a fact that 00 will zip through them like they were so much tissue paper. What you gain in comforting heavy 8mm pellets you lose in saturation as well.

 

Nice to see someone else testing and challenging what they've been told and think they know.

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Great posts guys....you are right if you are shooting across a room smaller shot will do the job without taking out the walls and maybe the people next door. Just be sure to have a spreader attached to the end of the barrel to reduce the chance of a miss....at these distances you cannot just shoot in a mox em and expect to get the job done....got to aim as if you were shooting a pistol or rifle.

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Droptrd = Just catching up... This seems to always be a topic of discussion. Was your choice because there are others in your home? If there was no one else in the house except your spouse and you both were in the same room would you still go the the #8? Everyone's circumstances are different. Just wondering...

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There seems to be a disconnect between understanding mass and velocity

 

#4 buck pellets being smaller than 00 buck will penetrate less using reduced recoil LE loads

 

instead of hi velocity will bring the power level down to a more controllable more predictive

 

outcome indoors and outdoors with direct on target fire.

 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

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Can't prove a thing but I suspect that #4 shot is a very good combination between penetration and effectiveness. Something like #8 might be a bit light for guaranteed results at distance. The nice thing about #4 is that a 'turkey load' is a recognized hunting load - no DA screaming about deliberate man killer rounds. You only used what you had for hunting AND it minimizes over penetration.

 

Just my opinion, and I can't prove it but it is worth thinking about.

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Excessive projectile penetration is the reason I put down the shotgun as a home defense tool and switched to a revolver that shoots 410 shells like the Taurus Judge and the S&W Governor. The Judge lets you load 410 and 45 Long Colt while the Governor fires both of them and the 45 ACP. So you can start with pellets and switch the last one or two rounds to a 45 if desired. The other benefit of the revolver is that it can be deployed at shorter distances. And sometimes a foot or two might make the difference between who lives and who get hurt.

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a calm mind is your best weapon, a good aim your second, and a shotgun is your third.

Know your area (terrain) of engagement and control that engagement.

Pick your shot gun, load and accessories based on those scenarios.

The shotgun is one of the most versatile guns. Very dangerous and more so in a fools hands. as

with any fire arm you have to practice with it. A 12 gauge with 00buck and slugs will KICK to the point most people will stop after 5 or 6 shots.

 

The energy from a shotgun is going to be much greater than from a pistol .For instance,a .357 has about 550 foot pounds of energy .A.44 Mag has about 1,000+ foot pounds. So there is 1,760 ft. lbs. for the buckshot and 2,700 for the slug. the shotgun wins, hands down for brute force and its ability to be toned down to suite your needs.

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Droptrd = Just catching up... This seems to always be a topic of discussion. Was your choice because there are others in your home? If there was no one else in the house except your spouse and you both were in the same room would you still go the the #8? Everyone's circumstances are different. Just wondering...

 

Yes I have 3 kids plus my wife in the house. If it were just the wife and I, id probably go with buckshot. You know, bigger is better.

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I have stuck with reduced power #4 buck shot I know how it works 1100 fps versus 1300 to 1600 depends on brand, slugs for when you need some penetration I do not get crazy there either a standard load will do.

 

all this hi power is neat but if your in a guano storm you need to be able to stay on target and not be rattled

by magnum shotgun recoil a 3 inch mag here is a chart to prove my point.

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm

 

you can compare it to your rifle caliber in this chart

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

 

anything over 20 on recoil energy is not going to work in your favor for multiple close targets

 

here is the pistol chart for grins

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_recoil_table.htm

 

Having shot my weight in 458 win mag in 500 grain solids and quite a few 460 Weatherby mags

 

although I am not recoil shy I do not see the point in shooting a deer with a 460 weatherby

 

people are very resilient but let us get real standard loads of #4 buck in 20 or 12

 

and all pistol rounds breaking 1000 fps and a minimum bullet weight of 140 is going to handle it

 

if not you can't shoot for sh*t if the first round did not get it done shoot in a different place

 

heart {center mass, head {nose or center of head circumference, crotch from front or back

 

but there are no off limits shots if your life or family is in jeopardy and wounded people are more dangerous

 

like an animal they can loose reality and not care about living only revenge never but never take your eyes

 

off your subject PERIOD unless multiple subjects are involved then you do not have a choice.

 

we need to use logic or else we are only going to carry 10 gauge pumps with 3 1/2 in mag shells

 

and 500 S&W revolvers with 350 grain bullets. a bit overboard IMO.

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