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Chickens Vs. Rabbits in an Urban Garden

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New plans may permit us to cultivate an urban container garden, and shady/partly sunny grassy yard space could permit us to keep up to 8 chickens or rabbits. I'm familiar with both animals, having kept them as a teen, but I'm wondering which is truly more useful, and less annoying to the neighbors. BTW, the yard is large with fairly good privacy, but I'm thinking noise and/or smell factors. Let me know your opinion or experience, please?

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hi 101

my thoughts are chickens,have the highest odor & noise factor.but then they also have the best nutrient value.rabbits provide protein,but nothin else.except filling the belly.on the other hand chickens eat bugs, can provide fertilizer in the garden as they're cleaning the garden.plus they provide eggs,feathers,nutrinental meat.so theres my vote.

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warrior7r

 

one warning about pheasants as well as any others we have mentioned read this

 

http://www.avianweb.com/breedingpheasants.html

 

there are specific conditions to maintain and keep these critters

 

Pheasants are no just pretty little birds they are one of the strongest birds

 

and can go right through chicken wire like it is not there I imagine some

 

are more tame but counting on it if your not animal savvy is not the way to go

 

I mentioned rabbits here is a terrible animal to raise Quail these little gems are

 

cute they grow fast and die for no known reason and can escape from a

 

solid steel box.

 

many give an opinion but I think it needs to be tempered with some information

 

rabbit may not have all the caloric value but they are {time feed to meat } the

 

most efficient raising Californians or New Zealands the reason I mention they are

 

large but not so large that they are a problem to handle they have good size litters

 

they can be bred right after having a litter and as soon as the bunnies start eating

 

they can be separated from the mother into their own cage for room for the new litter.

 

in 6 to 8 weeks are ready to put in the freezer.

 

compare that other animals gestation rate is slower in turn taking more feed

 

rabbits waste a bit of feed some more than others so pigeons would eat that

 

so no loss of feed so you gain from loss so it is not waste.

 

I want to caution people that raising anything will require culling a nice way of saying

 

killing out those that do not have attributes fit to carry on the species.

 

2 heads no limbs all manner of deformities can develop so one must be prepared

 

to cull and slaughter on a time schedule canning or smoking or salting the meat.

 

I have raised many animals and for the inexperienced rabbit is the one because

 

they can live in a cage and not let out can be bred back to back can produce

 

3 pounds in 6 weeks, more meat for feed cost in meat than other animals.

 

I posted when I first started a list of animals and their gestation periods and feed cost.

 

in a catastrophic event you need mass amounts food to feed people consider

 

your other reserves are dwindling as your waiting for these to grow.

 

pheasant are like rockets and are strong chickens are not slow but if one

 

leaves they will return to the coop not so with pheasant pigeons will return.

 

dove will not very often, they more than likely will stay gone.

 

these are the issues not what to raise but if we are trying to survive we do not need

 

another layer of problems as in all our animals dying off or escaping and never returning

 

that most would not recover from and we need food to live and barter.

 

one of my best arguments for rabbits and pigeons they are not going to kill each other

 

a 10 x 18 or 20 foot building will house enough to keep a family of 4 going

 

my building was built from scrap sheet metal and landscaping timbers and 4x4s and

 

2x4 inch square roll fencing and a dirt floor fence staples and 1/4" x 6" lag bolts & washers.

 

dig a trench 6+ inches deep around the edge of your coup dig with fence pole digger

 

holes around the perimeter evenly 18' 4 posts = 6 foot centers same on the other

 

side concrete the posts after side metal is laid not to much the hole should not

 

be too big.

 

be aware that the north side of this structure needs to be covered top to bottom.

 

use a level or a 4x4 level and make sure they are plumb and in line.

 

corrugated metal on its side slide horizontal into the hole make sure it is level at the top

 

but as far in the trench as possible this is to prevent animals from digging in.

 

screw metal to posts now you have your sides where ever your going to have your door

 

a post on either side at least 2+ foot from either corner you need room for your

 

cages or roosting poles

 

now for your door it is a upright piece of corrugated metal screw down one side no

 

hinges or any thing needed it has a natural spring action a cross bar made from

 

conduit or angle Iron or aluminum to seal shut the door needs to be 6 inches

 

off the floor as a treated 1x6 in under the dirt one on top of that to seal the

 

corrugations of the door to keep snakes out 18 foot 4x4 or what ever length

 

notch and bolt together if not long enough now your post need to be cut at the

 

angle you need / pick if you get a lot of snow steeper angle cut them and now you can

 

set your long roof beams / 4x4's right on top before you can predrill 1/4 " holes to

 

center the upright posts using a bit bigger then your washer countersink about as

 

deep as washer and thickness of lag bolt head so once the bolt is tight it is flush.

 

not sticking up after they are both set now your cross rafters to connect both sides

 

depending on the length of your metal is where you need to place the center as

 

it is the screw rail for the seam and metal need to be overlapped 12 inches and

 

using standard length metal i just use 2 ten foot length and leave overhang on

 

both ends and split the difference on the overlap seam.

 

to seal it better a bead of calking or silicone and lay the other sheet over it as it

 

is screwed down it will seal the 2 together.

 

you need a minimum or 4 beams to connect both sides using lag bolts looking

 

over the beams they are flush the cross beams are set between so no stripping

 

for screws the 4x4 or landscaping timbers are the screw rail saving material cost

 

and the edges of the metal are flat against the beams only the ends need to have the

 

corrugations sealed and that ain't much.

 

now for the sides you have metal 2.5 foot foot up the sides as 6 inches are in

 

the ground and should be back filled with sharp rock or anything you can find cheap

 

busted brick concrete chunks this also deters animal digging depending on your area

 

as to how deep and width and type of back fill badgers are more able than dogs

 

I went to a local granite installer and was given scrap pieces and that was my

 

back fill cost some time and gas had to break some up and some was large enough

 

to make a few end tables.

 

back to the side walls use LS timbers and like a hand rail between the uprights

 

even with the metal all around except the north side this should be covered

 

top to bottom with sheet metal.

 

take your fencing and attach to this rail and the up rights hopefully it will reach

 

the top rail if not you can cut your wire leaving tips to wire tie to the first run

 

pull tight and use fence staples to attach now your coup is sealed from intruders

 

notice that on the exterior the inset between the posts this is for boxes made from

 

2x4's for winter they can be covered by plastic both sides if a hard winter and one

 

side if in the deep south and removed in the summer.

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Snake good points but I have raised all the above species except for pigeons (Squab) I have not had the problems to the extent you are entailing are they possible yes but so is electing a president that can actually have the answer Lead this Nation and fix all our major problems. No one should raise any form of livestock without research and proper facilities my comments were to which is better nutritionally not just calorie wise and to overall usefullness Chickens and all of my recommendations are vastly superior to rabbits just a fact and yes chickens run away knew a guy who bought ten Rhode Island Reds that he thought would stay in his fenced yard yep lasted for about ten minutes before they jumped thne fence and were gone like I told him should have built that chicken coop. As for the pheasant in a yard environment they are fine, clip their pin feather and use 20 guage or heavier wire a privacy fence works well never had an issue it is a very hardy bird quail are small and picky granted and it takes three to fill you stomach unless stewed or pot pied no arguments to some having ghost abilities but they are quiet and extremely nutritious. it wasn't blind comments I never comment blindly it was an answer and additional options to a question that was asked I excpect people to do some research and learn the basics for themselves so they know where to start I'm not trying to teach a 4H class in animal raising in a forum posting. You may have all day to write books on what you think and your opinion I don't Sir. I spend most of my day taking care of 36 soldiers, being a member of the community emergency response & planning teams, keeping my family prepped and consulting preparedness on a professional level. I don't have an openly f**k the world attitude and then turn around and comment in book form on everything. I try my best to impart facts and personal experience, you're not the only person who's lived a full and very varied and interesting life. My comments are no less acceptable than yours.

Edited by warrior7r

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Point taken warrior7r

 

and I do love pheasant and I did not and do not think my opinions are any more or less valid than others.

 

I just like to give background and I have noticed that some have limited dollars to invest so

 

any information regarding initial cost of medications and structures can be of help.

 

Information and detail as there is nothing worse than people getting in over heir head

 

Feed {special requirements} and care & culling and construction as well as repair should be debated,

 

and understood some of us have raised animals but many have absolutely no experience and I

 

would hate to give anyone the idea that raising animals is too easy.

 

Books are great but I have read many that failed to explain how to avoid failure and the causes

 

animal raising as I am sure you will agree health of the animal and knowledge to treat and prevent

 

injuries and disease beforehand.

 

when I started raising animals again it made me realize equipment and certain problems to specific

 

animals required more than I recalled I did not want a novice beating themselves up for not

 

researching or having as much information as I can give them.

 

I had 2 bunnies die from breaking their own necks because commercial cages are built for rabbits

 

not bunnies so they got there head stuck and in their fear killed themselves now I build my own cages

 

I have not lost a bunny, though you dislike my long posts maybe someone else will appreciate my reasons

 

for making them a bunny cannot reach a standard feeder so a couple of bricks in front allow them to

 

have a easy step to eat from.and water bottles need to be lowered and one added as they drink a lot.

 

I helped a neighbor with Emu's and Ostriches they can kill you a kick can gut you break fingers etc.

 

so me advising to raise these animals without some information on care and feeding as well as

 

"PROBLEMS" might be in order.

 

I have a leather jacket one of my rabbits is defensive and protective of her space she lunged

 

and nipped at me, the arm of my jacket was cut at the seam 4 layers of leather cut about

 

a 1/2 inch.

 

their nails have to be trimmed or when you move them to breed your going to get sliced up

 

and you may be like me so use to this kind of thing it is just another day

 

some in these rooms are not and IF they are not equipped or ready to get injured or have to CULL

 

we do them and the animals a disservice.

 

You did not give information on incubation or feed requirements turkeys require more protein but turkey

 

feed can be used in place of chick starter, do you need to worm them do then need certain light or heat

 

bedding what diseases and can they be avoided do you need to inoculate them like chicks for POX

 

I can state in a post to raise elephants but if I don't tell them they need a front end loader to move the

 

sh*t and the fact they could turn on you then if they get hurt or wear themselves out cleaning, am I responsible or are they.

 

hey the eat grass and leaves and forage on their own actually sounds easy, well there ya go thinking

 

and doing are 2 very different things.

 

the fact that words are not enough are not lost on me, I have drag raced nothing can prepare you

 

for the feel of trying to keep one in the center of a lane and doing it once is not going to help

 

much for the second try either.

 

your post has great information this time as the Rhode island red

 

problem can help some one we have to remember some people may not

 

have ever had any pet or animal and because of 2012 or economic

 

fears are considering raising something and they need all the help we

can give them.

Edited by juzcallmesnake

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Interesting thread. My wife and I have been thinking about adding chickens to our backyard. We have plenty of room. I have been doing some research on them and looking at plans for a coop and enclosure. I understand that since a rooster is not needed that helps to keep the noise down considerably. We were thinking maybe 6 to 8 pullets would do it.

 

I have had a couple of recommendations for breeds. We live in NE PA so they would have to survive winters. Anybody have any first-hand recommendations for breed?

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rod

 

If you are just wanting eggs this is fine if you want chicks to increase your flock or to sell

 

then a rooster is needed you can dispatch the rooster after a group of chicks reaches

 

pullet size.

 

Americana's here is a link I kike these for a few reasons they have green and blue eggs

 

next these chickens seem to have few if any sicknesses and people think they are less cholesterol

 

they are the same as regular eggs but free range have less than cage raised as far as information

 

I have found.

 

http://www.mcmurrayhatchery.com/araucanas_americanas.html

 

bantams are great for sitting some hens do not set their eggs so no chicks you can use the

 

bantams as hens surrogate mothers, at night take the eggs from the bantam and put all the eggs

 

under her eggs last about 10 days before they are not viable for hatching.

 

you can eat the bantam eggs and let her raise a group of whatever chicken you want to raise

 

all this information is for you to consider that I have lost a dozen chickens in a week to hawks

 

I have lost a few to coons in a night that is why my description of a coup was to show how

 

well you need to reinforce it from outside entry and coons are smart.

 

what am trying to say is you can loose a dozen chickens quick so a constant renewal is a good Idea

 

some chickens go through a molt and do not lay I found that Americana's do not seem to have

 

any season they have laid eggs on the ice in a puddle in the winter other breeds seem to cease

 

laying in different times of the year.

 

when I got into raising chickens again, I had to learn a few new tricks diced garlic in the water

 

helps with internal worms and diotomaceous earth in the feed also is good for that and sprinkling

 

it in the area where they take a dirt bath keeps them free of mites or whatever as this is a

 

natural bug killer no poison I started with a mixed flock unless your raising for specific sale or

 

reason I would have some bantams and Americana's also eat the roosters and only have one rooster

 

for breeding.

 

if you know of a place that sells or services garage doors you can scrounge there dumpster for

 

panels and build a coop out of them quick and easy just remember to bury the siding at least 6"

 

to a foot and back fill with rock brick whatever scrap to keep out varmints.

 

one coup years ago was metal garage door panels for the roof also used silicone and tar to seal

 

out rain cost the price of landscape timbers and concrete and screws.

 

Just remember that everything and most everyone loves chicken foxes skunks wolves coons dogs

 

owls badgers weasels bears cougars everything and snakes love eggs so if you do not build your coup

 

for your area you will have none LOL .

 

and before you go into your coup if they are noises as the chickens are acting out there may

 

be something in there I always carry a 22 pistol animals attract predators but the plus of chickens

 

they are bug eating fools and small snakes in fact they will eat anything that won't eat them first.

 

and have personalities and habits and do not think hens are quiet we had a hen that crowed

 

and when ready to lay they all squawk wouldn't you if you were about to crap a baseball and

 

I am sure it is a sign to the rooster a good rooster can handle 2 dozen hens and a rooster that

 

attacks you or kids eat him and get another it is not normal maybe a couple of times you may

 

need to use him for a football but after that his just mean and you will never have peace

 

I have only had 2 out of all my roosters that I had to get rid of.

 

night time is when you need to handle or check chickens as you only stress them out during the day

 

some never will lay eggs in the coup and some want to roost outside if they do sell them.

 

limiting their free range time to afternoon for a few hours keeps the loss to hawks down and if

 

hawks got to bad leave them couped up until the hawks go else where.

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juzcallmesnake, Thank you for taking the time to reply. I will follow up your lead. I was planning on building a pretty sturdy coop as we have plenty of coons and hawks around. I understand I need to get down at least 8" into the ground with the fencing. I was also planning on covering the coop to keep the chickens in and the hawks out.

 

Thanks again!

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Rod

 

I forgot to mention the other reason i carry a pistol out to my pens, rabid animals do not act normal

 

they hunt in daylight not that they do not normally but they hide from humans when they see them.

 

 

If they have no fear of man then your in trouble I have only had this happen once a fox I was lucky

 

he was not totally gone and growled and did not run away not normal.

 

but all snakes like eggs and sometimes your in the coup and then realize your cornered the animal is

 

scared and defensive and it is between you and the door risking your life because you saw a

 

nature show where they catch and release is IMHO not a good idea and almost all animals are territorial

 

and make their circuit and will be back or have a burrow or nest in the area and your coup is the local

 

convince store and they can and will move to be close to the food source and snakes of all kinds

 

nest and produce more snakes so if you do not want to be infested take care of them when you see them.

 

in your area if a firearm is prohibited a 6 foot bullwhip is a dandy weapon against any animal.

 

a good one has a wood handle, drill a hole in the handle butt drill for a cross pin and lead it

 

so it can be used as a black jack a quirt folded in half or rolled up and a whip and a 6 footer is not going

 

to get tangled as much indoors and in bushy areas.

 

splitting an animals nose with one will back them off no matter how big.

 

I also keep a couple of cheap machete's hidden about over the door and in the rafter at the back

 

my grandmother would see a snake and just snag them by their tail and pop their head off I don't

 

mind catching them if I can pin their head but I do not see risking a good arm to being crippled.

 

IMO

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blackjac is right but as I stated in another post I would go with pigeons for quiet

 

and they have eggs with out the noise you can raise chickens with them as what

 

falls out of the feeder the chickens will eat.

 

how do you know what a male pigeon looks like. i know chickens will lay eggs without a rooster but you need to replinish the group gradually and will require a rooster. Do pigeons make eggs as frequently as chickens?

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Rod

 

I forgot to mention the other reason i carry a pistol out to my pens, rabid animals do not act normal

 

they hunt in daylight not that they do not normally but they hide from humans when they see them.

 

 

If they have no fear of man then your in trouble I have only had this happen once a fox I was lucky

 

he was not totally gone and growled and did not run away not normal.

 

but all snakes like eggs and sometimes your in the coup and then realize your cornered the animal is

 

scared and defensive and it is between you and the door risking your life because you saw a

 

nature show where they catch and release is IMHO not a good idea and almost all animals are territorial

 

and make their circuit and will be back or have a burrow or nest in the area and your coup is the local

 

convince store and they can and will move to be close to the food source and snakes of all kinds

 

nest and produce more snakes so if you do not want to be infested take care of them when you see them.

 

in your area if a firearm is prohibited a 6 foot bullwhip is a dandy weapon against any animal.

 

a good one has a wood handle, drill a hole in the handle butt drill for a cross pin and lead it

 

so it can be used as a black jack a quirt folded in half or rolled up and a whip and a 6 footer is not going

 

to get tangled as much indoors and in bushy areas.

 

splitting an animals nose with one will back them off no matter how big.

 

I also keep a couple of cheap machete's hidden about over the door and in the rafter at the back

 

my grandmother would see a snake and just snag them by their tail and pop their head off I don't

 

mind catching them if I can pin their head but I do not see risking a good arm to being crippled.

 

IMO

 

Yeah, I have had to put down my fair share of animals that have become rabid. Not fun but necessary. :(

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here is a site that is devoted to pigeons and has a lot of info

 

the getting started kit seemed good place to begin to learn about them a friend goes out at night

 

and using a fine net and a painters extension pole and a ladder and catches them under overpasses

 

he separated them into groups by color and other qualities and sold them and raced them he used the

 

beek method of sexing a short heaver beek a male a slender thiner beek a female 65 to 75 %

 

ratio of being right it is hard to tell even by knowledgeable people.

 

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/pigeonwatch

 

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/pigeonwatch/GettingStarted/kit

 

http://www.birds.cornell.edu/pigeonwatch/your-questions/great-questions-about-birds

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how do you know what a male pigeon looks like. i know chickens will lay eggs without a rooster but you need to replinish the group gradually and will require a rooster. Do pigeons make eggs as frequently as chickens?

 

yes all birds i know will keep laying as long as you keep taking the eggs out of nest.snake eggs are also edible.(nuttin personal snake.hehe)

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Guest survival101

I can remember Dad having to go out one night to wrestle what was left of a hen from a possum. And we had thought the coop was well made. You are right about the pistol. Possums aren't mean, but I wouldn't want to chance it. They show a lot of teeth if you confront them. But no one mentions that chickens can't handle the heat. Summers in the South can kill. Wondering if pigeons are a better bet? Anyone have an answer?

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I like Chickens. But in the area my mother lives in a familly had Rabbits. They just let them go wild all over town. they reproduced very fast and before you know it they are all over. The people in town liked seeing them. They never bothered anything. The kids loved them. After about two year the started killing them to eat. left some to reproduce. What was cool about it you never had to feed them or nothing.

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a few important points that may interest you.

 

I like the fact you can use cut grass to feed rabbits and the greens of most vegetables so your waste

is gain.

 

some feed is hard to replace like turkey / chick starter 16 to 18% protein we use to save all the cooking

grease and bits and mix with ground feed and meat trimmings ground up.

 

Now warning I am going to say something Biblical and do not ask me to remember where it is,

never feed an animal to itself in other words scrap chicken bones etc can be fed to any other animal

mad cow disease is believed to have been started this way.

 

cannibalism is proven to cause brain disorders and has been found in New Guinea natives

to cause problems.

 

Because it is a charged problem of great economic proportions and religious intonations

people refuse to face facts when you tinker with good sense and Biblical teachings

you step in it but good.

 

greed has a hand in this problem bone meal from certain was never to be used on the animals it

came from fish meal and others were suppose to be used but money got the better hand and foolish

people screwed us.

 

all animals are cannibalistic to a point some will eat their young some the afterbirth.

males of many species can and do eat their young it is controlled easily separate them.

It should be controlled when we set ourselves as their keepers we need to understand

that mineral depletion weather such as drought and things we still do not understand

can cause it can kick in so if you have rabbits eating their young

mineral block and or vegetables with hay mix into the diet helps to control this.

 

Cows eat the afterbirth and that is fine it is bone that we are concerned with especially the

marrow in the femurs.

consistent cannibalism means you cull them, some characteristics are not to be carried on

and culling is how it is managed, it is done in all animals even dogs and cats.

the persistence of traits has been managed by man in careful breeding, throwbacks and

aberrations need to be destroyed to prevent blurring or detracting form the blood line.

 

I did not start this it has been done for thousands of years.

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Guest survival101

good point. quite true. and also let me mention that in South America, particularly in Ecuador, guinea pig is keep as a stock animal. they can be fed dandelions, carrots, lettuces and cabbages, and will eat what they can find if you let them roam the yard. now, i know they are kept as pets here, but they traditionally were wild, and then domesticated as meat animals. they breed prolifically and are healthy, cheerful little animals. should it come to it, i might raise cavy.

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As far as smell regular cleaning and the application of quick lime I use a regular kitchen strainer sieve

 

and dust the dirt floor and mix some diotamaceous earth to kill many external shell insects but does

no harm to any animal in fact it helps with de worming them I still use minced garlic in the water

to reduce worms in fowl D.E. can be dusted on rabbit feed if they are fed bag feed worms are

not really an issue I like to take a bale of hay place it in a barrel and leave them in the sun in summer

the heat kills any insects then i replace the barrel in the barn watch feeding "fresh from the garden"

as the common ground snail carries a worm / parasite as do other bugs etc...

 

I also use horse and stable spray to kill flies horse flies and mosquitoes etc..

 

cleaning should be regimen for any animal barn save in barrels and cover and let age through

the summer sun to kill most all bugs and use it in your garden, remember that all manure

except rabbit are too HOT to place directly on your garden plants it need to be tilled in

small amounts before season and let set and retilled before you plant your garden or flower beds.

 

raising animals as everything else consistent action produces consistent results bad = bad

good = good or as in computer parlance "GIGO" garbage in garbage out.

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Guest survival101

All good ideas, and yes, I've seen the chicken tractors. If you buy rather than build, the cost here is about $375. would love to have one. as to how much land, absolutely minimal. people have been keeping chickens in small areas for as long as they've been domesticated. if you can call chickens domesticated. the key is to remember if you have a small space, more cleaning is required to keep mortality rates low. if you want to do the free range, chicken tractor thing, you can do it in a moderate sized urban back yard.

 

I do like the info on the diatomaceous earth and the garlic. One year I did a study on whether kiln dust mixed with feed would increase growth in chickens, and it had good results. I guess for the same reason as the diatomaceous earth.

Edited by survival101

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    • Давай разведемся!




      Давай разведемся! смотреть онлайн
      Давай разведемся! смотреть онлайн
      Давай разведемся! смотреть онлайн



      Качество: WEB-DL (1080p)
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      Размер: 2.6 ГБ
      Продолжительность: ~ 01:18:30
      Перевод: Дубляж
      Субтитры: Русские


      Вместе с фильмом "Давай разведемся! " смотрят.



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