13th Legion

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About 13th Legion

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  1. 13th Legion

    Defense Weaponry Standardization

    If you haven't already read it, you may find this thread helpful: http://www.survivalcache.com/forums/showthread.php?176-Calibers-for-Survival-Your-Input-Please/page4
  2. 13th Legion

    If money was no object, what would you use?

    Wish list – Money No Object ASSUMPTIONS: • Post-apocalyptic type scenario. • This includes the idea that I would have my girlfriend, maybe a partner with me. • Limit differing cartridges/calibers. • Big on interchangeability and compatibility. Barrels, accessories, sights and lights. Picatinny Rails are a must. • Ambidextrous controls. I am learning to shoot lefty for coming around walls. You also never know when a lefty might be part of your group. • All weapons (excl shotguns and sub-compact pistols) all Suppressor capable. Not drawing attention is something often overlooked in survival situations. • All except .22s with Laser • Can reasonably carry in bug-out vehicle – 4x4 1-ton and lightweight fifth wheel toy hauler. I carry my Harley for pleasure, but would include a Yamaha Tenere for survival. • Proven reliability. MAIN BATTLE RIFLES/CARBINES H&K HK417 [7.62x51nato/.308] H&K MR762 is civilian version, but if money is no object, I would get the Military version with full auto. Knights Armament SR25 [7.62x51nato/.308] With my preference for the Knights Armament M110 SASS, this might make for a better matching weapon. Similar function and parts. Why not: FN SCAR. I prefer it over the H&K except, the reciprocating charging handle is too distracting and a huge design flaw in my opinion. SNIPER RIFLE / LONG-RANGE HUNTING Knights Armament M110 SASS [7.62x51nato/.308] Semi-Auto Sniper System. Why go bolt when this is available? FN FNAR [7.62x51nato/.308] Modern day M1A. Semi-Auto. Easy for those not familiar with AR platforms. BACK-UP CARBINE(S) Magpul Masada [5.56x45/.223/6.8/7.62x39] Interchangeable internals, mags, barrels. 6.8 isn’t a big deal, but 7.62x39 AK rounds may be found. I would include this weapon whether or not I fully stock .556 Ammo. Knights Armament SR15 [5.56x45/.223] OR H&K HK416 [5.56x45/.223] IF I decided to maintain 5.56 ammo, it would be additionally important to have carbines that work with .223 as well. PDWS H&K UMP [.45 ACP] H&K MP5 N [9mm] FN FS2000 [5.56] Choice IF I decided to stock 5.56 ammo. Bullpup design. Easy for anyone to handle. SHOTGUNS FN SLP Mark1 Auto [12 ga] Semi-auto, 8 round capacity, reliable, durable, various choke tubes which are important so you can use slug, buckshot, and birdshot for hunting. Remington 870 MCS Pump [12 ga] Interchangeable barrels, mission specific accessories, and various choke tubes. PISTOLS FN FNP45 tactical [.45 ACP] FN FNP45 [.45 ACP] FN FNP9 (2) [9mm] Ruger LC9 (2) [9mm] Ankle/concealed gun Why not: H&K Pistols. Too large for my hand. FNPs are similar but have interchangeable back straps making it just right. (S&W MPs have interchangeable back straps as well). Why not: Glock pistols. Not a fan of the grip style and polygonal barrels. BACK-UP PISTOLS S&W MP45 Compact [.45 ACP] S&Ws are great pistols with DAO triggers which are easier for the non-practiced. S&W MP9 [9mm] S&W Governor revolver [.45ACP/.45LC/.410] Versatile you say? 22 CALIBER WEAPONS S&W M&P 15-22 [.22LR] Semi-Auto for accessory compatibility and training purposes Ruger 10/22 Stainless steel [.22LR] Anyone can fire. Could give to a pre-teen. Henry Survival .22 [.22LR] Anyone can fire. Put in canoe when fishing. S&W M&P .22 [.22LR] Semi-Auto for pre-teen and training purposes CONCLUSION Certainly the “Money it no object” consideration is fun. Even so, survival considerations implies certain limitations. Compatibility as well, should be a primary concern. So four to six rifles/carbines, two shotguns, two to three PDWs, and six to nine pistols and a few .22s. Almost too much, if back-ups are included. Including .556 or not would make a huge difference. I’m sure I’m missing something . . . oh yay, a 7.62 Machine Gun from FN, H&K, or Knights Armament for protecting the base camp.
  3. 13th Legion

    Calibers for Survival - Your Input Please

    If you have all of these calibers at home, I suppose that is one thing. If you're on the move, I would think you'll have to choose fewer. I still believe having the right gun in your hand with the right ammo within reach could be confusing in any situation. One solution I have come up with for flight is the Magpul Masada AR Platform. One carbine/rifle with interchangeable 5.56/6.8/7.62x39 capability (I still need to purchase the barrels and parts for 6.8 and 7.62x39). It all has to stay packed together of course. That said, it is the backup, my main rifle will be in 7.62x51/.308. I picked up a Remington 700 in .308, but it's certainly not a TEOTWAWKI gun. In the future I hope to land a H&K762 Civilian with EO Tech sights and AAC Suppressor. If not, it will likely be a POF (Patriot Ordinance).308. Once I have this, accessories, sights, and so on are interchangeable between the Masada and H&K/POF. BTW I shot a FN Scar17, but the constant movement of the charging handle is too bothersome for me and takes me longer to get back on target. Otherwise it would be my #1 choice. Others may not have an issue with this. .308/7.62x51 is so versatile. Self-Defense and CQC, Sniper, Barrier Penetration, and Hunting. Further, .308 and 7.62x51 is interchangeable. Not always so with 5.56 and .223. Go to a Big Box store and you'll find .223, but 5.56 is non-existent. Further 5.56/.223 really is a varmint cartridge. Trying to bring down larger game, at best, you'll be tracking a wounded deer much too far. As mentioned before there are may registered kills with the 5.56 in Iraq/Afghanistan, but doing some research, it is due to the sheer quantity of 5.56 Carbines. 7.62x51 primary use is in Sniper platform rifles. I don't want to turn this into any sort of age old caliber argument, but having researched this since I first started the thread, for me, there is just too many experienced special force, regular military members, and firearms "experts" who are not satisfied with the 5.56. The 6.8 may very well be the future, but for now quantities are way too limited to consider it for a primary cartridge in a TEOTWAWKI scenario. While I personally love my 30-30 and the 30.06 cartridge, to me, they just mean extra ammo and guns. I can't stress enough the need for everyone to consider an AR type platform weapon. For hunting the .308 is better than the 30-30 and not far enough behind the 30.06 to quantify carrying another rifle and ammo. Handgun wise, it's a FN-FNP45 Tactical with AAC Suppressor. The 15 rnd mag solves the capacity issue with .45s. Next two will be a Compact 45* and a back-up 9mm* and possibly a sub-compact 9mm ankle gun. I also will pick up a S&W Governor. A revolver with.45ACP/.45LC/.410 capability. *My favorite choices are FH FNPs and S&W MPs. As said before I have a 12 gauge, but would like to upgrade to the Remington 870 MCS, of course minus the 10" barrel (illegal). Another additional consideration is the Mossberg JIC Mariner that has a stainless steel barrel. Finally, a .22 for the reasons given by many. I am considering the Henry Survival rifle to legally carry in my back pack while hiking and canoeing. (Handgun on me as well). If I went full rifle, I would probably go with one of the new .22 tactical rifles based on the AR design. Besides matching accessories, developing a familiarity with this platform is a benefit, not to mention, saving money practicing at the firing range! I know, most of you know this, but just-in-case; regardless of what weapons you choose, practice is so very important. You can't or shouldn't just collect an arsenal and store them away. I suppose if I am missing something useful, it might be a PDW in a Handgun caliber. H&K makes the UMP in .45, but it isn't cheap. One point for the 5.56 is that a few companies make PDWs in this, but no one makes a 7.62x51. Going this route could add a lot of cost, weapon and ammo. I think we can all agree that because this is about SHTF scenarios, exotic ammo such as 5.7 and 6.5 Grendel, and so on, just isn't practical long term. Replenishment is the obvious issue. Otherwise I might go 6.8 Carbine, 5.7 PDW and handgun, but right now it's just not a good choice. One thing I have learned is this; when selecting Firearms and Ammo, you can't always use or compare to Military or LEO. Our military's ammo (type such as no hollow point not cartridge) is limited by Laws of Armed Conflict, and LEOs are limited by cartridge size. So be careful, besides Full-Auto, we as civilians sometimes have better choices. So I know I still have much to buy/build up. But it comes down to: 7.62x51/.308, .45ACP, 12 gauge, .22 which entails accumulation of ammunition. Back-up platforms include one weapon each of; 5.56/7.62x39 and 9mm, which entail limited amounts of 5.56 and 9mm ammunition. Well, that's where I'm at and my goals. For now. It's a fool who never changes their mind... great discussion.
  4. 13th Legion

    Calibers for Survival - Your Input Please

    College Football - You and me both!!! Saturday is my day in front of the TV, not Sunday. I live in the Northwest so I don't get to the games - I am not a Huskie or Cougar fan. I love rivalry games and think Nick Saban is the best coach in football. I did grow up not far from Notre Dame. I know, to SEC folks, it may as well be a team fro Ireland. I have been to several SEC games when I was dating a girl in Knoxville. Anyway. I am with you on keeping calibers to a minimum. While I will probably go .45 and 7.62 as well as a .22 and 12 gauge, I would have one handgun in 9mm and one carbine in 5.56 stored or brought on the run (in vehicle), in the case I run out of ammo and can only find those calibers. Basically an HK USP Tactical/or FNH FNP 45 Tactical in both, and an HK416/417 or FNH SCAR MK 16/17. Remington 870 eventually replaced by an FNH SLP Tactical and some sort of PDW like an HK UMP that takes handgun caliber, .45 cal. I know it comes off as a pipe dream, but we all need something to work towards.
  5. 13th Legion

    Calibers for Survival - Your Input Please

    Less concerned about budget, as opposed to weapons that can be beat to hell and last. I did feel limiting calibers would help me save some money and have greater interchangeability. As an example, I'm on my property, and I have a .45 pistol on me. Maybe I spread my ammo between house, workshop, underground shelter and vehicles. Doesn't make sense to have a .45 on you, but get to your bug out truck and have 250 rnds of .45 and 250 rnds of 9mm. Why not eliminate one of them and carry 500 rnds of one caliber? Anyway, that's my thought.
  6. 13th Legion

    Calibers for Survival - Your Input Please

    Thanks for the advise and input already, but I'll clarify a few things. I live in the Northwest. My Bail out is a self-sufficient property of about 10 acres. I eventually will build an underground shelter either here or on a different property, and then move. I do already have an old 30-30 and a 30.06 for hunting but am wanting to build a more survival conscious arsenal. I like the 30-30 lever on horseback or ATV. Regardless of the calibers chosen, I am an HK fan and the HK416/417 and USP Tactical will be the centerpieces. A friend of mine suggested .45 and 7.62 home arsenal with a spare rifle and handgun of 5.56 and 9mm respectively packed in the bug out truck, to give the flexibility for ammo availability on the road as some of you have suggested. I didn't really think about others needing to use the guns. While I don't think full out combat will be an issue as was mentioned, I do think protection of resources and against looters and the unprepared will be important. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect there to be groups and gangs pillaging and and trying to take what they want.
  7. 13th Legion

    Calibers for Survival - Your Input Please

    Hi everyone, New to the forum and to building up my survival cache of weapons. My first consideration is to limit the number of different calibers and gauges. Without question I have or will have: 12 gauge pump shotgun 22LR survival type rifle The biggest decision is between: handguns: 45 ACP v 9mm rifle/carbine: 7.62 v 5.56 My favorites are 45ACP and 7.62. However in a survival situation many are of the opinion that 9mm and 5.56 ammo will be more plentiful. I will have a good amount to start, but if I must move or go on the run, will I wish I had chosen different? Also open to other caliber ideas. I am sure this is a common debate, but I would ask for input on this. Thx.